...About Gentrification?

Transcript available here.

PK & Kristen discuss how gentrification occurs in major cities, our roles as urban transplants ourselves, and our responsibilities to slow the rate of gentrification in our neighbourhoods. 

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Do The Kids Know? is a biweekly series of discussions between community workers and educators, Prakash and Kristen, that unpack race, media, popular culture, and politics in KKKanada (That’s Canada spelled with three K’s) from an anti-colonial perspective.

Our goal is to bring nuance to sensationalist media as well as to uncover the ways in which white supremacy, capitalism, and colonialism is shaping our movements and behaviours. 

Keep tuning in to be a part of the conversation… don’t be a kid who doesn’t know!

Find us: @dothekidsknow (Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok)
Email us: dothekidsknow@gmail.com
Tip us: patreon.com/dothekidsknow
Newsletter: tinyletter.com/dothekidsknow
Artwork by Daniela Silva (instagram.com/danielasilvatrujillo)
Music by Steve Travale (https://stevetravale.com)

DTKK is recorded on the traditional and unceded Indigenous lands of the Kanien’kehá:ka Nation. We are committed to working with Indigenous communities and leaders locally and across Turtle Island to fight for Indigenous rights, resurgence, and sovereignty. 

Until next time. Stay in the know~!

Transcript

Prakash  0:15  
Hey y'all, and welcome back to Do the Kids Know? This is the show, where we talk about race, media, politics, pop culture, and whatever we feel like because sometimes we just have things on our mind and we need to talk about it. And... 

Kristen  0:32  
Yeah. 

Prakash  0:33  
You know categorizations, binaries, boxes. Keywords. It's not for me. Okay. 

Kristen  0:43  
I was gonna say where are you going with this? 

Prakash  0:47  
I don't know. I'm not looking at a script. I forgot how to. I forgot how this starts. But welcome. We're here. 

Kristen  0:52  
I think you did a good job. 

Prakash  0:53  
Thank you. If you're new, welcome. I'm Prakash. Here on my zoom screen is Kristen say hey. 

Kristen  1:00  
Hello. 

Prakash  1:01  
Hello. Welcome back. So this is our first episode, after the, I mean I guess its the second episode of the season. The first episode with a real topic of discussion. And that's what we're gonna do. It's gonna be less learning based being like, Hello, welcome to subject and more just like, this is a subject. We hope that you already know what it is, and we're gonna just talk about it from our points of view, perspectives, expertises, etc. That's not a word. It doesn't matter. But before we get into it, we're gonna play our fun intro game, which is reading our most horrific daily astrology thingy pop up from costar, which is rude. We don't like it. And yet we continue to look at it every day. 

Kristen  1:46  
I mean, I don't know if I don't like it. I think it's funny how rude this application is. But I think because I also don't put much stock in what it tells me to do or not do so it's it's a hilarious addition to my day. 

Prakash  2:01  
It's true. We're definitely looking at it from more of a like this is silly. Something fun to be like lol it told me to stop being ignorant. Because ignorance...

Kristen  2:09  
Right? 

Prakash  2:10  
Ignorance is violence. Kristen, did you know this? 

Kristen  2:13  
Co-star told me so I know it now. 

Prakash  2:17  
So in this past week since we've recorded has there been a particular horoscope that stuck with you? You'd like to share with the class? 

Kristen  2:27  
On Wednesday, cold start told... Cold star? God. On Wednesday, co star told me to read the physical copy. 

Prakash  2:43  
Okay, okay. Bold of you to assume I can read. 

Kristen  2:49  
Okay, but Prakash. Prakash. 

Prakash  2:51  
Listen, I think I'm I said this many times I'm manifesting it. I'm going to return to my old form. Which is just big dumb slut. No more thoughts. 

Kristen  3:01  
You can be a dumb slut and still read. 

Prakash  3:03  
I don't want to though. I'm tired. My eyes are tired. I too much too much knowledge. It's too much. But so did you use this as a prompt to buy yourself some more books that you'll... To add to the shelf? 

Kristen  3:19  
No, I have so many books I haven't read yet. On My Shelf. Like literally I am pointing to a shelf with eight books on it that I haven't yet touched. So no, I'm not buying anymore books. 

Prakash  3:31  
It's funny because I have a box over there from Indigo with the book with a book for you. Merry Christmas. 

Kristen  3:39  
I will add it to my pile. And I do have multiple piles. There is also a pile on my bedside table of books that I have started but not finished. 

Prakash  3:51  
Yeah, I did this thing where I... the only thing I know about is books. Well, in the past that has been a thing. Lately I have not been keeping up with the the new literature, but I will often by my friends books that I want to read. And so I will give them a copy and then be like, have you read that yet? And did you like it? Can I read it? And it's a circle of life, you know, the circle of literature. Circle of book life. 

Kristen  4:18  
Yeah, I love it. 

Prakash  4:20  
Okay, I'm looking at it my co-star for the first time. And this first one, the first one from Saturday says, 

Kristen  4:27  
Oh, no. 

Prakash  4:28  
Your body is an upright neural map containing a million different ideas. 

Kristen  4:38  
Okay, I'm not I don't. I'm like It's not wrong, but I don't know where they're going with this. 

Prakash  4:45  
Yeah, I think we were discussing right right before recording how I'm having a tough time, consolidating my professional identity into a key phrase because of how...

Kristen  4:56  
True.

Prakash  4:57  
...different all of my professional obligations are and how different my titles are and yet,

Kristen  5:02  
Yeah, and I told you that they won't connect. They're just many facets of who you are and what you do.

Prakash  5:08  
Yeah. Anyway, the neural map, 

Kristen  5:13  
Why do you why do you they need to connect? 

Prakash  5:15  
For branding? 

Kristen  5:16  
Why does... but isn't your brand that you are a multifaceted human being? 

Prakash  5:22  
Yeah, but that's not very google-able you know? 

Kristen  5:24  
Oh my god. No, okay, cuz we're gonna fight because I still disagree with you. But do you want to be google-able at the moment? Because you literally turned down assisting people with things this week, because you're doing too much. So do you need to update your website right now? 

Prakash  5:44  
No, it's like a long term project. But I'm doing other website related activities. So I'm like, kay, while I'm doing this might as well do mine too. So then... 

Kristen  5:53  
Sure. 

Prakash  5:53  
This is not important for the podcast, we can we can move on. 

Kristen  6:01  
Giving people a real dose of what happens when we don't have a script. And we just be talking. 

Prakash  6:05  
We just be talking transition music if I have it. And now... 

Kristen  6:09  
Don't we have transition music? 

Prakash  6:10  
I don't know. I've asked if I asked a few friends if they could make us some. We'll see if it arrives before I finish editing this. Probably not. But 

Kristen  6:19  
Okay. 

Prakash  6:20  
Moving on to today's topic, which is gentrification. 

Kristen  6:25  
Yay, fun times. 

Prakash  6:28  
For some people, it really is fun times. For some other people. It is the end of days. 

Kristen  6:36  
Yeah. Like so many things. 

Prakash  6:40  
So many things. And so for those who are maybe like less familiar with like the lived realities of gentrification, I will like define it very briefly or like from the way I understand it versus a dictionary definition. And so, gentrification, I think I should I really think that the French word for gentrification really encompasses it like the, the phenomenon a little bit more acutely, which is I feel if I pronounce it slowly, I'm gonna mess it up. But embourgeoisement, like think about like, like, the bourgeoisie, like bougie, making something more bougie. This is the translation for gentrification. 

Kristen  7:24  
Yeah. 

Prakash  7:25  
And so some people are gonna argue that gentrification is a natural part of a city's development. 

Kristen  7:32  
No. 

Prakash  7:34  
But I'm going to disagree. Because really, when we because it's like, no one, no one is advocating against getting like, no, if your toilet is broken. Please fix that, you know? Like, things like, updating plumbing, infrastructure... 

Kristen  7:47  
What we're against... Exactly. Those don't equal gentrification. Gentrification is when white people don't want to live somewhere because it's bad. And then certain white people go in and invest i've you can't, quote unquote, invest in the neighborhood. And by investing in it, they make it more white and slowly become so white that the black and brown people who used to live there can no longer afford to live in their neighborhood. Okay, that's not infrastructure improvement. That's gentrification. That's what we're talking about. 

Prakash  8:16  
Yeah, and I think a lot people get this confused. And we're really talking about the process of foreign money, not necessarily being like an international like investor coming in and buying up like a whole block of city property and then developing it but people from outside the neighborhood coming in being like, Oh, this is like, big scare quotes like underdeveloped, like land, or like building infrastructures condos, that can like be flipped to turn a profit. And I'm someone who really grew up watching HGTV. If you're not familiar with what that is, it's like the Home and Garden Television Network. And it like on a loop just plays a lot of these shows about like home flipping and like these other kinds of home reno shows that people will often like something like Love It or List It in which family or a couple or whoever will flip their home while shopping for a new home. And then they'll get to choose whether or not they want to remain in their newly renovated home or like, go like move, move to the new place. And often these renovations happen because then they can sell their home for a higher price than what they bought it. And then this is a way of like, achieving class mobility and whatever. And I'm also still like not necessarily against this phenomenon in particular, but where the issue for me comes in is what you said Kristen. Like when white people particularly white people, but this happens to people of all... 

Kristen  9:47  
But it's not just white people. 

Prakash  9:48  
It's not.

Kristen  9:49  
Let's Yeah. 

Prakash  9:50  
I'll clarify. Because I think what we need to talk about first is the suburbs. 

Kristen  9:56  
Yeah, okay, let's do it. 

Prakash  9:58  
So Kristen, you can correct me on the on the historical details, but from what I understand, basically, WW2, you happened, right? Like, all these men were conscripted went off to war. I'm talking in a Canadian and American context, they went off to war in Europe, they came back. And then Canada had this like economic boom, where there was like, all of this jobs were created during war times. All these like factory jobs or whatever, people came back, it's a good time, economically, people having lots of children, you know, hence the baby boomers because it was like a boom in baby population. 

Prakash  10:30  
And so in order to like accommodate how people would spend this weath, then to also develop further industries. In Canada, specifically, the auto industry, the country was invested in developing larger infrastructure, larger home infrastructure, rural infrastructure in order to be able to sell cars. And so we see in like the 40s, to the 60s  the real invention of the American Canadian suburb. And so these are like sub urban populations that exist in the peripheries of an urban center, like so for instance, we are from a suburb of Toronto, called Brampton. And so originally conceived as sort of like this, like small, like, smaller township compared to the Toronto population. And then, of course, cities grow, but then what happens in the suburbs, even if you were like a wealthy ish or middle class living in an urban area, because of the urban compression or like the population density, it is not possible for you to have like, you still have to really rely on community municipal infrastructures in order to profit from things like entertainment, large spaces for gatherings, parks, you know, like greenery. You'd have to like go leave your home to get these. But in the suburbs, instead, now you can have a full like, four bedroom two or three story home, everyone has like an abundance of space, you have your own backyard. So you are your own park. You have like a TV or family room. So you have your own movie theater. You have a driveway, so you have your own transportation. And you can like then drive a car to access anything. And so people get used to having a lot of amenities. And then there was the sort of kind of like fear that was put into the minds of like, the people at the time that like, the rich and the wealthy and the privileged, go to the suburbs, and that's where you have better access to all these things, material wealth, education, private schools, etc. And then the people who are left in the city who cannot afford a four bedroom, family home in the suburbs, are stuck in the city. And the city then develops like, you know, what people like derogitorily term as like ghettos or inner city communities, that kind of thing. 

Prakash  12:54  
Then cut to the 2000s, the 90s, 2000s, the city is once again, lit. And now these people including a lot of immigrant populations, who have grown accustomed to the amenities of the suburbs, now want to have the experience of city living, but still all those things. And now if you can, like go find a really cheap apartment, and that you know, the potential here potential for growth. I'm not of this community, I don't know these people, but you know what? I can afford this rent and you know what I could also afford that commercial space. So I'm going to open up a yoga studio and provide yoga to the community because they can afford $110 a month yoga passes. And so when people then import their like suburban, privileged material ideologies, back into these urban centers,

Kristen  13:55  
Before you talk about that, I think there's some there's some nuances missing here. Because it used to be that you would live and work in your same neighborhood. And with the introduction of suburbs, you stopped living and working in the same place. And as you grew up in a suburb, like as children, you would grow up in a place where you would go to school and live and then you would eventually work somewhere else. So in addition to like this part of the city becoming lit, is people growing up in the suburbs, not wanting to continue living in the suburbs, because where they worked had more things in walking distance than their suburban homes did. So it's also the move away from like, Baby Boomers to like, yeah, to their kids and to their nieces and nephews wanting to not have to get into a car and drive 15 minutes to go to a movie theater. Get into car and drive 10 minutes to go to a restaurant. Because where I work, I can walk down the street and there's a restaurant so why don't I go and live near to where I work as well. 

Prakash  14:58  
Yeah, it is true that also yeah, that during the time of the advent of the suburbs, that light there wasn't at the time, real like work infrastructure, maybe if you worked in like factories. But typically people would live in the suburbs, and then commute into the city. And also, this is the time taking, like the 50s, throughout the 70s, that it's still mostly men who are doing this commuting going to work. And then there's a spouse at home who's maintaining the suburban community, and like, not part of the kind of like the urban transport. 

Kristen  15:31  
Yeah. This also like, coincides with a split in the suburban population as well, because there are people who lived and worked in the suburbs, but they did trades. They did construction, they did plumbing, they did those things. So the people who commuted were also the ones who buy into capitalism really hardcore, because they are leaving their homes and leaving their families to go to their corporate jobs, their business jobs, they're like high falutin ahatever the fuck you call that street that has all the banks on it jobs. And so it's their kids, who then go into the city and buy up these places, with the profits from their banker dads buying up these buildings and these apartments and opening yoga studios. 

Prakash  16:19  
That's true. Yeah. So when we think about sort of like the concentration of wealth within a city. So like something like a financial district, right? So... 

Kristen  16:28  
That thank you. It's like, what is what is that called? 

Prakash  16:31  
Yeah. Whatever the Canadian Wall Street's are. Yeah, Financial Drive in Mississauga. 

Kristen  16:41  
You know, at least they were like this, this name, we'll just call the street that.

Prakash  16:44  
Yeah, it is what it is. And yeah, so when you have something like a financial district in which there is like a major concentration of wealth amongst the people who like work in this very small portion of the city, but then all those people actually don't live the city, they live in a suburb, they're like, effectively exporting wealth from the city and moving it into a suburb, but somewhere that's quite really, really framed at this time as something exclusionary. Like it's like something very exclusive, like Compton. And, you know, people are probably very familiar with Compton, in the US, a suburb of San Francisco. Priginally, like, essentially a whites only neighborhood. And then we can talk about white flight in another episode. But essentially, yeah, white people are realizing that like, oh, like, actually, this is, this is getting a little bit too black for us. And San Francisco is actually now whitening up. So let's just go there instead. 

Kristen  17:46  
And it's rude because like, it's becoming more white, because are becoming less white, because other minorities are gaining traction and gaining the same economic advantages and privileges that white people have. And then they're like, woah, we can't have this. We can't share. We need to leave. 

Prakash  18:03  
Yeah. And it's so fucked, because, cause first suburbs were too expensive for the Blacks and the Browns to go live there. But then when they did manage to get enough capital to be like, you know, what, yes, let us you know, quote, unquote, get out of the head led us to benefit from the luxuries of the suburban lifestyle, they move, but then that effectively drops the prices of housing, because of white flight. And the the kind of like the original affluant population then going back in city during this exchange. But again, like where the money moves, we see other kinds of movements in terms of like the development of the community and so when the same way that like the suburbs were originally, like cost prohibitive to poor communities to POC communities, suddenly now the cities in which they were like, forced in now they become expelled from because with a now without money returning into the city... 

Prakash  19:07  
Like even though the money was made in the city, like let's go back to the financial district. All of these like billions of dollars are made in the financial district. These people live in the suburbs. They're not paying let's say, Toronto property taxes. If you make it money in Toronto, but you live in Brampton, you pay Brampton taxes. I mean, of course, you pay like provincial taxes, but it's like before when people lived and worked in the same place, it's like you like by nature of living where you work you are reinvesting into your community because that is how municipal taxes function. But now we just see all this like extraction of wealth into the suburbs. And when people people bring it back, they're not bringing it back in terms of kay now let me like develop a community center. Let me like Adopt a Highway or like whatever people do with money in terms of like kind of being trying to be generous with... 

Kristen  19:56  
Let me buy from the mom and pop restaurant and mom and pop Corner Store that's been here for forever. They don't say that. 

Prakash  20:03  
No. Instead it's like, oh, this Mom and Pop grocery store doesn't have the bread I like so I'm just gonna open a Longos. 

Kristen  20:11  
Yeah. 

Prakash  20:12  
And, you know, quick plug for the Gillen Westmans family who like made what, billions of dollars in profits in the pandemic. Fuck Longos because they own Longos. 

Kristen  20:26  
Yeah. 

Prakash  20:28  
Anyway, so really back to gentrification. So the more recent phenomenon of what we're seeing and why a lot of people, you know, this continues to be a hot topic of, of debate and discussion within like academic and like, whatever supposedly woke communities is like, as people who have migrated into the city, a lot people don't have the choice about migrating to city. It's like we come here for school, because we like, you know, need an education, I guess. Or because this is these are where jobs are, or this is where, you know, you can find community relations. Like, how, how do we deal and like, how do we like halt or slow down? Or what is our role in the process of gentrification? 

Kristen  21:15  
Honestly, that's a great question. Thinking particularly about like the neighborhood that I live in, in Montreal. It used to be really Francophone. And in the years that I've been here, like, the main street is completely different, completely revamped. Like, there's a Bulk Barn now. The like lone, Dunkin Donuts is gone. And it's been replaced with something else. There's like, those bougie grocery stores where you can find like organic things that you wouldn't be able to find at the other grocery stores. And so like, I am actively a part of the gentrification of this neighborhood, because I do go to the big grocery store instead of going to the smaller ones, because I'm lazy. And I know that this store in particular, will sell me the more expensive type of jam that I like, rather than trying to find a jam at like, I don't know, any other corner store that would probably have a really nice tasting jam. But I could buy this gym, in Brampton, and here, so I'm gonna buy this one here at the store, because that's what I'm, like, used to. There's like, a piece of laziness there for myself, that I can acknowledge, is not good. And so grappling with that, it's, it's hard, because I am actively enacting this same thing that I'm calling people out for doing. 

Prakash  22:52  
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it is a sort of a tricky situation, because it's like, they're, you know, the same way that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Like, there is no way to like, for someone like us, like, you know, in our profiles, people who are, you know, not from a community who have moved in. You know, whatever like, that we are bringing in a certain kind of wealth that maybe others who are from this community do not have access to.  I similarly, like live in a community that was historically like a very poor white Francophone neighborhood. And it has been one of the slower neighborhoods of like, central Montreal to undergo gentrification, like very visibly, but it is happening, you can see like...  Like, so I'm in a building with all the apartments identical. And yet, I pay $200 more than one of my neighbors, but he has lived in that apartment for 30 years. 

Kristen  23:56  
I don't understand. Like, I understand, I understand the words that came out of your mouth. I'm just like, annoyed at the system that has made this a reality. 

Prakash  24:05  
I know cause it is a thing that if you... It is it becomes easier for a landlord to increase the rent, when there's a changeover of tenants. 

Kristen  24:13  
Yeah, that's the same reason that I'm still in this apartment. 

Prakash  24:17  
Yeah. But if you and the I think this may be a little bit Quebec specific if you live elsewhere the tenant laws are really dependent on province. But Quebec does have a really strong like, rental laws. I don't know what that's called. But essentially, like there is there is like a really clear way for you to be able to like refuse, proposed rental increases from your landlord. But like, often these connections get broken when there's a changeover of tenants. And so because this person has been there for so long, like he has outlasted the changing of ownership of the building, has been able to like really preserve his rent because also when you don't change the tenants, then there's less of an opportunity for a landlord to come into the apartment and do renovations. Because there's a whole phenomena of reno-victions, which is when a landlord, or property owner or property manager will, like, refresh or renovate an apartment, and make it look nicer, and then use that as the kind of... 

Kristen  24:24  
The reason for charging more? 

Prakash  25:27  
Exactly, yeah. And not only more like enough to cover the cost of renovation, because lets say... 

Kristen  25:33  
But more than that. 

Prakash  25:34  
Yeah, in order to continue to turn a profit. 

Kristen  25:37  
Yeah. 

Prakash  25:37  
And this is very different from how other countries operate. But this is like how it typically works in Canada and the, in the US. And so in terms of like, what you can do, cuz also, yeah, it is also one of those things, it's kind of like recycling, where it's like, you can do your very, very best to recycle, as you know, as well as you possibly could. But the infrastructure of recycling in Canada is broken, and most things that you will try to recycle will end up in the landfill. It just is what it is. And so it's like Kristen, you could do your due diligence by like only shopping at the dep, the corner store, or by you know, the mom and pop grocery store. But that's that's probably like not feasible. Also, if someone you know, has a particular dietary needs, or let's say if you only eat halal or Kosher or vegan, or something that maybe you just might not be able to get the things that you need at the places that are like, you know, within immediate walking distance. Or the places that are not like franchises are commercialized institutions. 

Prakash  26:33  
But I think there are there still are things that we can do so yeah, like, you know, spending your money to like, not at the artisanal farmers market where you're spending like $85 on that one bottle of jam. But like, reinvesting in the community in other kinds of ways, like, Hey, if you have neighbors who are houseless, like give them money. You know, like, who cares what they use it on? Just like, you know, support them. Because also like, you know, charity is not going to be the way that we they fix anything in this country, by kindness... 

Kristen  27:02  
Well, because... 

Prakash  27:03  
Individual kindness. 

Kristen  27:05  
When you say charity, you mean philanthropy which was created by the same capitalist who broke the system that we live in, so it can't fix it. 

Prakash  27:13  
Yep. Canadaland, when you listen it'll be a few few weeks ago, but Canadaland, Jessie Brown has Nora Loreto on the podcast. And they talked about the CBC's annual food drive for Christmas, and how that's a scam. 

Kristen  27:26  
It is definitely a scam. 

Prakash  27:27  
I mean, food banks theymselves know they're a scam. And they're like, this is not the way that we solve anything, but like it's an emergency measure. But during COVID, the government tell people to go to food banks. And I screamed. 

Kristen  27:39  
I can't, okay, because food banks, I don't know if they even see themselves as an emergency measure. But the average person sees food banks as a way that they can show other people that they give a fuck about their community. And it's frustrating to me. I remember, like, there was one time that my mom and I emptied out. Okay, so we never threw clothes away as children. We would put them into bags or into bins and put them into the garage. And then eventually, you know, that becomes unsustainable cause you run out of space. And so my mom and I did like a clean out and brought things over to the oh my god, I don't remember what they're called now. Like for the Salvation Army. Thank you. I was like the Canadian salvation? But that's wrong. And my mom, as she does, got into a conversation with the guy who was accepting the donations that day. And she asked him like, what is it that you guys are actually like looking for like, we are dropping this stuff off, because we would like to get rid of it. But also, we would like to go and purchase things that you guys need if you have a list. And he was like, honestly, anything you could give us is fine as long as and and then his caveat made me sad. Because he was like, as long as it's something that you would want to walk into a store and buy, we will accept it. Why did he have to make that clarification? 

Prakash  29:03  
Oh, because I am positive people are giving up their like raggedy underwear like shit stained bedsheets. I'm sure. 

Kristen  29:12  
That's why I'm sad. Because it's like, you don't donate because you don't have a use for it anymore. Or it's your garbage, like donations are not your garbage. I don't know. It's like forgetting the humanity of the people who will be using the things that you no longer have a use for. And it makes me very sad. But this isn't anything to do with gentrification, anyway. 

Prakash  29:38  
But, yeah, for people who are thinking about like moving into the city, or like buying an apartment because you know, you're at that stage of your life in your career, and like, you know, I personally I'm not telling you that you cannot do these things again that you should not. Again, if I was I'd be very hypocritical. Because no matter what you do, your actions wherever you are, whoever you are, whatever class bracket, race, sexuality, whatever, is going to have an impact on the community in which you're situated. And so I think it's just like worth thinking about that a bit more broadly. So then, when you are going to, yeah, you're moving from the suburbs into Toronto or Montreal, like, where should I situate myself? Okay, well, the cheapest apartments are in, let's say, Park X. Which has historically been a, like a heavily predominantly like, immigrant, working class community. Even if you are all those things, if you're like, if you did not come from that community of people who like continue to live there, and continue to grow families and need housing, especially if they've like built a new college campus there and rents have gone up or whatever. Or like, now that they're like, they're developing infrastructure, because there's a new university campus, you know, it's a very hot area now. And there are a lot more, suddenly, there are a lot more apartments for rent because of reno-victions. Like maybe that is not the place to go to as a new arrival. As someone who has like, access. And yeah. 

Kristen  31:11  
Yeah, like, think about the reasons why your apartment could be so cheap. And then that should hopefully lead you to other apartments, other options. Another thing that I would say that you can do is to walk your potential neighborhood. Like, find out where you can go to buy the products that you need, that isn't a chain, isn't a big box brand. And you can do that by walking your neighborhood. Figure out where the restaurants are. Figure out who potentially you could talk to. Like, I realized in walking my neighborhood that there's like four tailors within walking distance with me. So if anything is broken, any of my clothing need repair, I know that there's four stores that I can try. Although I go to this little Asian lady, cause she's really nice. But see, like, I wouldn't have known that. If I hadn't done a walk of my neighborhood. It's a really good way to keep an eye on and an ear on where you can go and where you can spend your money to keep your money local.

Prakash  32:17  
Yeah, that's a great point like harkening back to how we discussed, like, the extraction of wealth, let's say from the Financial District into the suburbs. Like, if you, yeah, let's say, live in Park X, but you work in the Plateau, and then all your money goes back into restaurants in the Plateau, then, like, why do you live in Park X, you know? Like, think about like, how, like your money can circulate within the community, like even if you like, ate out in your own community at like a locally owned restaurant versus like, I don't know, whatever chain restaurants exist, then that is like a small way of, again, introducing that wealth back into your community. Again, thinking too about apartments and affordability, because that's one of the major one the major issues like especially in Montreal, where I think the vacancy rate has never been so low. Like there are there were literally not enough apartments available for the people who like need places to live. And this is like a significant problem for the city and for its residents. And so especially like if you're someone who, like, let's say, live in one of these neighborhoods that you know that you have been involved in gentrification whether or not you attended or not. Like maybe you came for school, or it's like you moved in with a bunch of roommates to make a home more affordable. Instead of then turning that over into another group of like, or like students or whatever, right? Like if you have like a four bedroom home, apartment, like there are lots of families like who cannot find affordable spaces that are large enough to fit their families. And again, this is very Montreal specific. But if you live in Montreal, which most people listen to us are based in Montreal, almost every neighborhood has something called comite de logements like a housing, a housing committee. And you can like go to them or like go to any of these community organizations. Again, when you walk around, you'll find them and you can be like, Hi, I'm gonna have apartment I'm going to be leaving my roommates at the end of the end of June. Could you help us find a family who would wander who would want to move in maybe instead of... 

Kristen  34:22  
The landlord finding another student or another group of students. 

Prakash  34:25  
Exactly, because also something to like in terms of student housing, if you can rent a home to individual people, you can then charge them each more to get like make a larger profit. Like let's say yeah, $2,500, amongst these like five people, but then like that would not fly with a sole income household, that kind of thing. So again, think about ways that like the transfer of wealth can be like monetary currency, but also can be less kind of access to housing, access to neighborhoods. And, and yeah. 

Prakash  35:03  
One last point we've already talked for quite a bit. I just need to rehash something I said before but maybe not as clearly and as forcefully as, as I, as I would like to gentrification is not only coming at the like, I'm not sure behest is the right word, but it sounds right. At the behest or at the, at the willpower of white people at the audacity of white people, right? 

Kristen  35:30  
Yeah. 

Prakash  35:31  
And there is like, there's no identity marker. Except maybe if you're Indigenous that because, you know, stolen land. Unless that's you like there is-- 

Kristen  35:45  
Anyway, I'm going to take on a tangent, it's okay. It's okay. Finish your point. 

Prakash  35:48  
We'll pause it. We'll pause it. Indigenous Land, land back aside. There are like no kinds of these like, marginalised identities that you can use, that's going to absolve you from your involvement in this process of gentrification. I do not care if you're queer. I don't care if you're a POC. Like, I don't care if you're an immigrant, I don't care if your family was poor. Like, if you... 

Kristen  36:14  
Because that doesn't absolve the privilege that you have over those more marginalized than you. It doesn't absolve the intentional and unintentional oppression that you are doing on those more marginalized than you. Okay, it doesn't matter. If I can sit here as a queer, black, disabled, chronically ill feminine woman and being like, I am gentrifying my neighborhood. You can't tell me shit. I'm so sorry. No, no. 

Prakash  36:41  
But just take stock of everything. I've known that we've said everything around you and be like, How can I do this less badly?

Kristen  36:50  
That's honestly it. How can I do this less badly? How can I do this in a way that is more sustainable for my neighborhood, more sustainable for the community that I live in? Because that's also it. Capitalism has made us very individualistic, and the sense of community is gone. And so we need to bring that back. Caring about you, means caring about your neighbors, means caring about everybody on your block, means caring about the like, dep, the convenience store on your corner. Like all of those things go into what we're talking about today. 

Prakash  37:22  
And you know, when you just think think to yourself, when I eventually move on from this place, which you will like, how am I setting this up for the future in order to like not continue to perpetuate these cycles of gentrification, redevelopment for profit, and exclusion of minority and poor populations? 

Kristen  37:44  
Yeah, sounds good. 

Prakash  37:46  
Great. And with that, hope you learned something. 

Kristen  37:50  
See you next time. 

Both  37:51  
Stay in the know. 

Kristen  37:59  
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