....About Indigenous Issues (Part 3: Myth-Busting)

Transcript (PDF) available here.

Welcome back to episode 3 of our mini-series on Indigenous issues in KKKanada. This episode in which we unpack and dispel some commonly-held myths surrounding Indigeneity wraps up our discussion on Indigenous Writes: A Guide to First Nations, Métis & Inuit Issues in Canada.

References and Resources:

Chelsea Vowel’s blog: https://apihtawikosisan.com
Whose territory are you on? https://native-land.ca
Adrienne Keene’s blog: http://nativeappropriations.com
Indigenous right to vote: https://www.ictinc.ca/indian-act-and-the-right-to-vote Other Indigenous voices and scholars to read: Kim TallBear, Zoe S. Todd, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, Audra Simpson, Eve Tuck,  Billy-Ray Belcourt

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Do The Kids Know? is a weekly series of discussions between community workers, Prakash and Kristen, that unpack race, media, popular culture, and politics in KKKanada.

Find us: @dothekidsknow (Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok)
Email us: dothekidsknow@gmail.com
Support us: patreon.com/dothekidsknow
Newsletter: tinyletter.com/dothekidsknow
Artwork by Daniela Silva (instagram.com/danielasilvatrujillo)
Music by Steve Travale (https://stevetravale.com)

DTKK is recorded on the traditional and unceded Indigenous lands of the Kanien’kehá:ka Nation. We are committed to working with Indigenous communities and leaders locally and across Turtle Island to fight for Indigenous rights, resurgence, and sovereignty. 

Transcript

Prakash  0:15  
Hey kids and welcome to Do the Kids Know? The show where we talk about race, media, pop culture, and politics in triple k Canada from an anti-colonial perspective. Today we're back with the third episode in our mini series, where we explore specific, appalling, yet overlooked issues facing Indigenous communities in Canada. Today's episode is our third and ending roundup of Indigenous Issues 101. And today, we will be breaking down some myths, busting some myths, around Indigeneity that I for one grew up believing for the most part, because, you know? Did not know any better. Was not taught any better. And this will also wrap up our discussion around the book, Indigenous Writes: A Guide to First Nations, Métis, and Inuit Issues in Canada by Chelsea Vowel. But before we get into this, Kristen, what is on your mind?

Kristen  1:18  
I have an answer this week. Yay. 

Prakash  1:20  
Yay. 

Kristen  1:21  
What is on my mind is the fact that I've been at my parents house for almost three weeks now. And something about being at my parents house during this pandemic has turned me into baby like I am baby. Yes, Mommy, please make all of the food for me. Yes, daddy, please buy the groceries for me. Yes, mommy coddle me in a way that I would have hated if this was like eight months ago.

Prakash  1:50  
Yeah, relatable. I also feel like baby when I, when I visit my parents for a very brief, short term stints. And I quite enjoy it. You know? Truly, the amenities of middle class suburban life are quite nice. Like, oh, you have a fridge and a pantry that are both fully stocked? A deep freezer? Wild.

Kristen  2:14  
My parents have the fridge upstairs, a fridge in the basement, and a deep freezer and a pantry and I'm just like there's food in abundance. There's food in abundance. This is wonderful. Also, yes, please cook the food for me. Thank you.

Prakash  2:32  
This is it, yeah. I, yeah, I think I talked last week about how I like my food has no taste. And yeah, my parents food abundance of taste. 

Kristen  2:43  
Oh my god so much taste. 

Prakash  2:45  
It's so good. And I think part of that too is both my parents are really good at cooking. And they really understand how the spices go together like ingredients. And also, yeah, they grew up in a country that also had like so many good food options. But here it's like, Oh, yes, a salad. A sandwich. And I'm like no bland boring. Get out of here. Yeah, but also like living in the Toronto area. You just also have access to like very specific grocery stores that give you all of the niche ingredients to really elevate your cuisine. 

Kristen  3:22  
Honestly, the way that I live for Jamaican food in the GTA. I... I'm so sorry, Montreal. 

Prakash  3:28  
And it's so cheap and it's so cheap. 

Kristen  3:30  
I just... Oh my god. I'm salivating. Okay?

Prakash  3:35  
We talked about it like, like a few weeks ago. How I spent $11 on doubles. $11!

Kristen  3:40  
That's... 

Prakash  3:40  
$11 for what should be a $4 meal.

Kristen  3:42  
That's blasphemy. Honestly, it's blasphemy. Also, I've only had doubles from like one place because no other place... Even Jamaican food. I asked a Jamaican person who was born in Montreal where I could get good Jamaican food and they looked at me and they said you know because you're from Toronto, I can't really recommend anywhere here. And I was like, oh, okay.

Prakash  4:06  
I was like, did they tell you Toronto?

Kristen  4:07  
They did. She said go home. She said, go home. Go home. If you want that go home. Okay. Cool.

Prakash  4:15  
Oh God. It's so sad.

Kristen  4:19  
Yeah, but yeah, that's, that's what's on my mind. I'm constantly fed. I'm constantly babied in a way that I know if it wasn't the pandemic I would hate this. Like speed boat... Speed boat? Anyway, speeding back down the 401. Which the 401 is apparently now a water way? I don't know.

Prakash  4:49  
Also, wait, are speed boats a thing?

Kristen  4:51  
Speed boats are a thing, yeah.

Prakash  4:53  
You have your slow boats. Your speed boats.

Kristen  4:55  
I think there are just like... 


Prakash  4:55  
Your hyper speed boats.

Kristen  4:56  
...boats and then speed boats. 

Prakash  5:00  
Okay. Sure, sure. 

Kristen  5:06  
In any case, yeah, I would normally be speeding back down the 401. If I was coddled in this way, and instead, I am very much embracing it. Like, oh, this is nice. What are we going to eat today? Oh, you're going to cook? Wonderful. I'll just lay here. I'll just lay here. When you go downstairs, can you get me a glass of water? Thanks.

Prakash  5:29  
Yeah, I support it. Especially as people who, yeah, you know, approaching our 30s, many years of living on our own and having to take care of ourselves. And even though we don't have dependents, I do see us as people who like, do spend a lot of time taking care of people around us in various ways.

Kristen  5:48  
Yeah. 

Prakash  5:48  
So it's really nice to have someone do that for you. 

Kristen  5:53  
Yeah, it is. It's quite nice. 

Prakash  5:55  
Yeah, and not expose your business to everyone, but you are at home for medical reasons. So I think this is all part of the, you know, the care ethos of like, going home to take care of yourself. And this is part of that.

Kristen  6:09  
Yeah, that's true. That's very true.

Prakash  6:12  
But also, it's like you have also been taking care of your parents as you've been away. Moreso emotionally speaking, but also like financially in other ways.

Kristen  6:19  
Yeah. 

Prakash  6:20  
You know, this is, this is when we talk about reciprocal care, this is what it is.

Kristen  6:24  
It is. 

Prakash  6:24  
It doesn't always have to be the exact same care. Like, oh, like, I cook one day, you cook another day. But like, there are ways that we each draw enough strength to like, support one another.

Kristen  6:33  
It's true. Yeah, my mom loves to take care of us. Normally, I find it smothering. But right now, I love it. I love it. 

Prakash  6:41  
That's really sweet. It also great when it's a choice not like, you're like compelled to stay home because you're like, reasons. 

Kristen  6:48  
Yeah. Yeah, very true. I keep making that gross sound. I'm so sorry. What's on your mind?

Prakash  6:58  
That gross sound. No, I'm kidding. What's of my mind? Yeah, I, I've been thinking a lot about. I just did it too.

Kristen  7:16  
RIP to future PK. He's going back through this and having to cut that sound out.

Prakash  7:22  
Actually, no. This does remind me of what's on my mind. I wasn't going to say but now I'm going to say it. I... Okay. My therapist is breaking up with me.

Kristen  7:31  
Oh no. 

Prakash  7:32  
In that they're no longer working at the clinic where I like get therapy. So. So, I'm not really sure where to go from here. But I think that while I wait for a new therapist, I'm going to maybe invest in speech language therapy. Because it was something I've been thinking about for a while. It came up in one of my thesis interviews with my interviewee, where we talked about the brown guy accent. That no matter where you, no matter where you are, if you are like a South Asian Brown person who grew up in the West, you have a very particular accent. That I thought was very Toronto specific, but apparently it is not.

Kristen  8:20  
That... I don't know. I don't know how I feel that that just cause like the Toronto Brown guy dialect, if you will, has a strong Jamaican influence.

Prakash  8:33  
Yeah, no. I think the word truth is very, very Toronto specific, but I think just like the intonations...

Kristen  8:39  
Okay.


Prakash  8:39  
...or the rapid pace at which we talk and some of maybe the stylistic choices of how words are affected or lost or get kind of garbled...

Kristen  8:49  
Okay. 

Prakash  8:52  
...is a, is maybe more of a unique thing. And I've been thinking about this too, in terms of how I grew up, learning, speaking, reading, writing Tamil, and now trying to, like learn it. Not really learn it but like being more exposed to it, as I've decided to follow more and more Tamil news sources and Tami like influencers and stuff like that on Instagram, and seeing lots of pronunciation guides. It's like, hmm, things are really not pronounced how they're spelled. Like, you do lose a lot of syllables when saying words aloud, and I think that has impacted my speech to an extent, maybe. And I spend so much time just editing my own voice and trying to make words sound like real words. And like, you know what? I might save myself a lot of time. If I just work on my own voice, so, yeah. 

Kristen  9:46  
Okay. 

Prakash  9:46  
Thinking about it. Looking for resources. We'll see how this goes.

Kristen  9:51  
All right. Keep us updated on this journey that you are partaking on.

Prakash  9:57  
Yeah, I mean, I guess we'll hear it. We'll see if it works. Whether or not there's a real change in my intelligibility. I think that's the right word. 

Kristen  10:08  
I feel like... 

Prakash  10:09  
Legibility but for audio.

Kristen  10:11  
Sure, honestly, I don't know. I feel like that pause meant that we both were like, Is that real?

Prakash  10:18  
Who knows? When you only write smarter, and don't talk smart.

Kristen  10:26  
Before, before we move on there, I just want to bring us back to episode one of this season about imposter syndrome. I'm just gonna leave that there.




Prakash  10:37  
One more thing on my mind. That fucking Reductress quiz. Like the fake quiz, that's like, quiz, are you good enough to have imposter syndrome? And I like... That sent me to the moon. I left the planet. I was like this is fucking rude.

Kristen  10:55  
Rude on multiple levels, okay?

Prakash  10:58  
Yeah, that, that killed me. 

Kristen  11:00  
Yeah. Oh, man. 

Prakash  11:02  
Coffin emoji. Okay, anyway, back to this week's topic. Which is more, more sobering regardless if I'm laughing right now.

Kristen  11:14  
I feel like there's going to be...

Prakash  11:15  
Which is...

Kristen  11:15  
...a lot of collective sighs in our future.

Prakash  11:18  
Yeah, you know, we just have to do a very quick rapid re-education of a lot of the myths that are perpetuated in Canadian society about Indigenous people culture, identity, purported benefits, etc. 

Kristen  11:32  
Ugh, benefits. Yeah.

Prakash  11:36  
The nerve. Anyway, we're gonna get into it. So again, all of this is coming from Chelsea Vowel's book, I'll link in the show notes, Indigenous Writes. So the first one is the number of straight up lies in the retelling of colonial history. Such as, one that really tickles me, that there were no Indigenous people in Quebec. Even though the story of Canada's foundation...

Kristen  12:04  
What do you mean?

Prakash  12:04  
...was that Jacques Cartier... 

Kristen  12:05  
What do you mean?

Prakash  12:06  
...showed up here in the Montreal area, keke'd with, you know, the the Mohawk of Hochelaga. Then he went back to France, came back and couldn't find that. And thus begins the story of French settlement.

Kristen  12:25  
I'm actually just like, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm ready to like, just like put down my headphones and leave. Like, I'm like, I'm good. Like, we're at number one. And I'm already like, and we're done. 

Prakash  12:35  
And no. And people really believe this and then people have the fucking nerve to be like, actually, French Canadians, Quebecers, are the Indigenous...

Kristen  12:45  
Nope.

Prakash  12:45  
people of Quebec. 

Kristen  12:46  
Okay, I need French Canadians to stop calling themselves things other than French Canadians. Because French Canadians also have called themselves Black. Like, stop it.

Prakash  12:53  
Yeah, they, they still do. 

Kristen  12:54  
Stop it.

Prakash  12:55  
They still do. I read this like La Presse like last year. 

Kristen  12:58  
Stop it. 

Prakash  12:59  
And I was like, I...

Kristen  13:00  
Just be French Canadian. Okay? Stop it.

Prakash  13:03  
Like you have identity. You don't have to...

Kristen  13:05  
You don't need to appropriate an identity of another marginalized person. No. what? 

Prakash  13:11  
Yeah. 

Kristen  13:11  
Thank you for perpetuating further oppression.

Prakash  13:16  
And this, this happens everywhere. Like across Canada, there are like lies like this being told so just maybe reflect a little bit on, think a little bit more critically about the history you're being told. 

Kristen  13:28  
But also do what all of the history people like, do what I was taught to do in history class, you need multiple sources. Okay? If your entire essay is based off of one source, you're wrong. You need multiple sources, multiple views, multiple biases, because everything is biased. So if you get multiple biases from both sides, then you will be closer to the truth than if you just listened to one person. So if one person is telling you a thing, find facts to back it up. And if you find facts, to back it up, try and find other facts that further back in up. So that you know, multiple sources.

Prakash  13:59  
And don't just have the written word. Just because it was published in the book does not mean it's real. 

Kristen  14:03  
Oh my god. No. No, not even a little bit. Because again, everything is biased. Everything is biased. Maybe we should put that on a shirt. 

Prakash  14:13  
This is why we're like... Yeah, new merch coming soon. I have more to say. But we have to push keep pushing because we got...

Kristen  14:21  
Oh crap.

Prakash  14:21  
There's so many. There's so many, Kristen. There's so many.

Kristen  14:23  
Okay, let's do this. Let's do this. What's number two?

Prakash  14:26  
Number two, denial of the effects of colonisation as an explanation for Indigenous oppression. 

Kristen  14:32  
Explain. 

Prakash  14:34  
AKA Oh, it's not like we as colonisers who have caused Indigenous people to be in the impoverished location that they find themselves in. Its because they are lazy. 

Kristen  14:47  
Oh, oh, of course, of course. Because systemic issues are the fault of the person who's being oppressed and not the oppressor. Love it. Cool. Cool.

Prakash  14:57  
Yeah. Yep. And um, whenever people bring this up that like actually like white people, coloniser, settlers are the ones who are like perpetuating this, people love to be like, oh, this is like reverse racist.

Kristen  15:09  
That's not a thing. I don't care. 

Prakash  15:11  
Especially in Quebec again with, with French Canadians. Quebecers trying to be like, we're oppressed. I'm like you can be oppressed and oppressor. 

Kristen  15:17  
Thank you. 

Prakash  15:18  
I don't understand how much more clear I can make. 

Kristen  15:22  
Just because you are oppressed doesn't cancel out you still being like, oppressing somebody else. I don't... Behaviors don't cancel each other out. That's just wrong.

Prakash  15:35  
Again, before y'all showed up, thriving multinational societies. 

Kristen  15:39  
Thank you. 

Prakash  15:39  
Like on this landmass.

Kristen  15:39  
Thank you. 

Prakash  15:41  
And now...

Kristen  15:42  
Now look where we are.

Prakash  15:45  
Here we are.

Kristen  15:45  
Okay, number three.

Prakash  15:48  
Number three, the myth of the level playing field.


Kristen  15:50  
Oh God, meritocracy all over again.

Prakash  15:53  
Meritocracy, the myth of meritocracy that we're all here. We all have equal opportunities under the law.

Kristen  15:59  
False.

Prakash  16:00  
We are all like equal as citizens, which we already talked about in the first episode of this series. That is not true.

Kristen  16:06  
That's fake. 

Prakash  16:07  
This is just not true. And equality before the law. The law that came from England does not account for Indigenous governance, or ways of knowing, or like the ways that they have, like, since time immemorial, established their societies, dealt with trade conflict, etc. But crown laws? This is, this is not it.

Kristen  16:29  
Nope. Crown laws further enforced by the systems that the crown created. But you know...

Prakash  16:36  
Yeah, and as we've talked about many a time, on many episodes, these laws were created for white male land owners, right? Which is, when we look at the history of voting, those were the first people to vote. You had to be a white, a man, and have land. 

Kristen  16:53  
And then? 

Prakash  16:54  
That slowly opened up.

Kristen  16:55  
But because you were white, a man, and had land, you could designate the laws that everybody else had to follow.

Prakash  17:03  
But we're all equal. We're all equal. 

Kristen  17:05  
Of course. 

Prakash  17:05  
Under the law. 


Kristen  17:06  
Of course. 

Prakash  17:06  
All equal. 

Kristen  17:06  
Yeah, definitely. 

Prakash  17:08  
And speaking of voting history, I just have to quickly double check when Indigenous people were allowed to vote, which I think was 1967 but that might be...

Kristen  17:14  
Jesus. That is so recent.

Prakash  17:17  
Okay, yeah. So this excerpt comes from the Indigenous Corporate Training, Inc. And so they have this blog post about the Indian Act and the right to vote, which I'll link in the show notes. But in brief, the right to vote, which most Canadians take for granted, was a hard fought battle for Indigenous peoples. In most parts of Canada, First Nations were offered the right to vote at the time of Confederation, but only if they gave up treaty rights and Indian status. And we've already gone over, you know, what this mean? Why are they important? And how hard Canada tried to take it away, so...

Kristen  17:51  
But you know, it's it's a level playing field Prakash.

Prakash  17:55  
If you want to be equal, like, if you want to be our lover, you gotta get with our friends. The government of Canada, in 1867.

Kristen  18:04  
Oh, my God.

Prakash  18:05  
So understandably, few are willing to do this. And again, First Nations are legally distinct from Métis, and from Inuit, so Métis people were not excluded from voting, as few were covered by treaties, therefore, there was nothing to justify disqualifying them. Inuit were excluded, and there were no steps taken to include them as most communities were geographically isolated. So in the absence of special efforts to enable them to vote, they had no means of exercising the right.

Kristen  18:36  
I, my whole body is reacting to that statement, but keep going.

Prakash  18:40  
So long before contact with Europeans and the ensuing Indian act, Indigenous peoples had elaborate systems of government. Therefore, many unfavorably viewed the 19th century proposal for enfranchisement, which is the granting of the right to vote to citizens, for two reasons. First, it would mean the termination of their recognition as distinct nations or people as signified by treaties with France, Great Britain, and later Canada. Which would mean the beginning of their assimilation into settler society. And second, it would mean voting in a system of government that was alien to the traditions, conventions, and practices of governance of many Indigenous peoples. Voting was also considered redundant as the traditional effective system was already in place for choosing leaders and governing nations proposals to offer the franchise date back to at least 1885. But were met with hostility within the federal government. The status quo endured for nearly a century as there was little pressure to extend the franchise, although it was extended in 1924 to Indigenous veterans of the First World War, including on reserve veterans. Meaning that they were able to vote without losing their status.

Kristen  18:40  
Yeah, so if you fought for the white people you were able to vote in the white people's laws? Cool.

Prakash  19:53  
Yeah. The fact that so many Indigenous peoples served with distinction in the Second World War was one of the reasons why It was concluded that the time had come for all Indigenous peoples to have the full rights of citizenship. In 1948, a parliamentary committee recommended that the right to vote be extended to all Indigenous peoples. The federal government did extend the franchise to Inuit who did not have treaties or reserves. So were legally considered, quote unquote, ordinary citizens. But Indians who wanted to vote would still have to waive their rights to tax exemptions, given the significance of this treaty right, few did so. It was not until 1960, under the leadership of Prime Minister, John Diefenbaker, that Indigenous peoples were offered the franchise without having to give up any treaty rights in exchange.

Kristen  20:45  
Jesus. That is so recent.

Prakash  20:48  
So we're all equal under the law. The law that you cannot vote in until 1960. Wild. 

Kristen  20:56  
Wow. But, yeah, no, we're, we're all equal. There's a level playing field. The reason that they didn't want to vote? Laziness? 

Prakash  21:03  
Yeah. 

Kristen  21:03  
Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay.

Prakash  21:07  
So here we are. So.

Kristen  21:11  
Wow.

Prakash  21:11  
And so about this whole taxation thing that I just touched on.


Kristen  21:16  
Yeah, aren't they... Aren't Indigenous people just exempt from taxes? Isn't that a benefit of being Indigenous?

Prakash  21:23  
I mean, if you hate people who don't pay taxes, I hope you're not using Amazon. I hope you're not on Facebook, Google, and this podcast, even. I hope you don't...

Kristen  21:32  
Thank you.

Prakash  21:32  
...listen to Apple Music or whatever. Because many of these people do not pay taxes. 

Kristen  21:38  
No. 

Prakash  21:38  
And by people, I mean, corporations...

Kristen  21:41  
Yeah. Which...

Prakash  21:41  
...who arguably Canada values more than actual people.

Kristen  21:44  
Thank you. That was my point.

Prakash  21:49  
Actually, even Loblaws and Canada's, Canada's biggest corporations pay much fewer taxes proportionately than you or I do, Kristen. Remember, I was on EI this year, so i'll pay taxes on that. So there is an Indian act tax exemption for First Nations only, again, First Nations different from Métis and Inuit, that is very narrow and applies only to personal property and income located on a reserve.

Kristen  22:21  
Which I just did reserve is land that the white people said that the First Nations could have back even though it was theirs to begin with.

Prakash  22:31  
Sometimes not even theirs. They were often displaced and they were like, okay, this random piece of land here, and that is not yours?

Kristen  22:35  
That's true.

Prakash  22:35  
You can have this one.

Kristen  22:37  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Prakash  22:40  
And we talked about before in the last last episode in this series about how difficult it also is to one gain status, so that the Indian Act applies to you. 

Kristen  22:50  
Applies. Yeah. 

Prakash  22:51  
Because again, not all Indigenous people in Canada are quote unquote, status Indians. And again, there are people who are not Indigenous who have status, which is so fucked. And so this applies to less than 200,000 people.

Kristen  23:08  
Oh my God. Oh my God. Sorry, that number is very little. In comparison to the negative thoughts and feelings surrounding this myth.

Prakash  23:20  
Yeah. Again, Canada has a population of like 35 million people. 

Kristen  23:25  
Yeah. 

Prakash  23:25  
And you're worried about 200,000 people. 

Kristen  23:28  
Like okay, guys calm down. 

Prakash  23:31  
Who are also often especially if you're living on a reserve, literally low income. What do you want from them? 

Kristen  23:39  
Honestly. 

Prakash  23:40  
And I blame...

Kristen  23:40  
Why are you so pressed? 

Prakash  23:41  
And I believe that number includes elderly and children, so people who are like not even... 

Kristen  23:45  
Oh my god, I can't.

Prakash  23:46  
... making a taxable income. 

Kristen  23:47  
Oh my god. 

Prakash  23:48  
And actually, it's even even less than that. Because in self governing federal agreements, tax exemptions might be traded or nations might have their own taxation regimes. So, yeah.

Kristen  24:01  
Honestly leave people alone. Leave people alone. That's, that's what this, like all of these myths so far have proven to me. Leave people alone.

Prakash  24:09  
Yeah. 

Kristen  24:09  
Why do you care? 

Prakash  24:11  
And so there's this idea that it's like if you are Indigenous person or status Indian, you can like walk up to a store, show your ID card, and then not paid tax.

Kristen  24:21  
That's a thing that yes, as a child that is that was taught to me. Yes. 

Prakash  24:25  
Yeah. And that is not... 

Kristen  24:27  
Not... 

Prakash  24:27  
...real. 

Kristen  24:28  
Yeah.

Prakash  24:28  
Not in the way that people think of it. So there are some status card point of sale exemptions. Like in Quebec. But it's like very specific. So Kahnawake is a reserve that exists on the south shore of Montreal. But these agreements are between the province and the nation. So like the nation like the Mohawk nation, located in Kahnawake, but this doesn't apply to all retailers and it is like very confusing. Like as people who live here like don't really know about it, and most people don't know about it, including retailers. And often refuse to honour it.


Kristen  25:03  
Which like, that makes me think of another thing that we should talk about, which is just like enforcing the laws of colonialism and settler culture.

Prakash  25:15  
Yeah, only when it benefits the colonizer. 

Kristen  25:17  
Yep. 

Prakash  25:19  
And the last one under taxation is that the court has indicated that this tax exemption is not intended to remedy the economically disadvantaged positions of Aboriginal Peoples in Canada, or bring economic benefits to them.

Kristen  25:37  
It annoys me that the court had to say so because it's obvious to anybody who reads and did a bit of fact checking that it cannot do that already.

Prakash  25:44  
Yeah. So again, the court, Canada Court has said, this is not meant to improve anyone's lives. This is not... 

Kristen  25:51  
Because it can't. 

Prakash  25:52  
It's... I...

Kristen  25:57  
That's... That's like, they put somebody in a boat in the middle of the lake, and the boat has 10 holes in it. And they've given them a singular band aid to plug one hole, and everybody around them on the shore. So they're not even stuck on the lake, they're on the shore, they'll be fine. They're like, look at this person with this band aid. How dare they get this band aid? How dare they? And the court is like, but they're still gonna sink. I don't... They're still sinking. 

Prakash  26:20  
Yeah. 

Kristen  26:21  
They're still thinking. There's nine other holes, like, I don't...

Prakash  26:26  
Yeah, but uh...

Kristen  26:28  
But we're mad.

Prakash  26:30  
Capitalism has us so twisted that this is where we're stuck. 

Kristen  26:33  
Yup.

Prakash  26:33  
This is it. You know? The, the fear of the welfare queen or whatever goes so deep. And we've seen this, you know, with CERB and stuff, and I'm just like, people just need to let people live. Let... 

Kristen  26:44  
Please.

Prakash  26:45  
Give people the means to live. Let them have what they have, you know? Like, I don't...

Kristen  26:49  
Thank you. Why does it and it like it ties back to like Western society and individualism. Because capitalism perpetuates this fear that if I get something you can't have it. If you get something I can't have it. So how dare you get a tax exemption that I can't get? Because your benefit is a detriment to me. And that's just so false. It's so false. 

Prakash  27:10  
Yeah, as if as if like people who have wealth, who have money, like so in a Canadian context, most of this is like white people and also like racialized wealthy people, like know how to, know how to reclaim their tax money. Like they know how to like how much money to invest in charities, how to save in like RRSPs or whatever it's so that they can pay less tax. 

Kristen  27:15  
Exactly. 

Prakash  27:17  
People with the means know how to do this and when you are like so disenfranchised by the state of the lands that are traditionally yours, when you have this like this and that again is not meant to remedy anything, but was part of like Treaty agreements, you know? That date back to before most people's families you know, came here, like that just... And that again like this small tax money you might get from those like less than 200,000 people affects you in no way shape or form.

Kristen  28:02  
Thank you. 

Prakash  28:03  
Go after Amazon. Like I'm tired.

Kristen  28:04  
Thank thank you. Go after corporations who we're treating like people. Like I just I still I still am like in my soul angered that we give corporations rights. 

Prakash  28:17  
It's so fucked. I'm like go after Bell who like recruited like mill-, like 100 million dollars whatever of like...

Kristen  28:23  
Millions.

Prakash  28:24  
...of that fucking like wage subsidy and then like fired all their employees. Tell that to BuzzFeed. I think that I bought off Huffington Post and I think Vice and then fired everyone.

Kristen  28:35  
It's also that they fired I think it's Huff Post Canada and Huff Post Quebec because a union was coming. 

Prakash  28:41  
Because a union. Yeah, I'm like this is, this is Superstore. This is Superstore. TV show. In real life.

Kristen  28:45  
It is Superstore. A union was coming and they were just like, close it, it's fine.

Prakash  28:48  
Yeah, we'll just acquire and yeah, let everyone go like this is.

Kristen  28:54  
But you know, we're gonna, we're gonna be mad at the 200,000 people, that includes elders and children, for having a tax exemption, because, you know, their land and their livelihood and their culture and everything was stripped from them by the society and the culture that we live in. Yeah, let's be mad at them.

Prakash  29:11  
I hate it here so much. Okay, a few remainging myths and then we can wrap up cause I'm... 

Kristen  29:17  
Right. 

Prakash  29:17  
My hair, my hair is falling out cause I'm so I hate it here. Okay...

Kristen  29:21  
I'm just tired.

Prakash  29:22  
So there's like great myths of like free housing, that somehow if you're Indigenous, you get access to free housing.

Kristen  29:29  
I've never heard this before.

Prakash  29:31  
So I'm just going to read this social policy that comes from the royal commission that states to date, the federal government has not recognized a universal entitlement to government financed housing, as either a treaty right or an Aboriginal right. It has taken the position that assistance for housing is provided as a matter of social policy. And its Aboriginal housing policy has been based on this premise. Thus, assistance has been based on need.

Kristen  30:02  
Okay. Okay. So people are mad that people are getting housing assistance?

Prakash  30:10  
When everyone in Canada can apply for housing assistance.

Kristen  30:15  
Yeah, that's, I don't... So we're mad that they're actually implementing a social policy? That's what we're mad at?

Prakash  30:23  
Again, this policy comes from white people. Like, y'all wrote this, but because as soon, and this is why, like the whole, like, welfare queen stereotype is so racialized. In the US, it's very black centric. In Canada, it's very Indigenous centric. But we have this idea of racialized people abusing, quote, unquote, the system. Again, look at Loblaws, Amazon, Bell, Air Canada, etc. But then lie, when people use the services that are offered by law, again, laws are created by and for white people, suddenly it becomes a problem. but when white people use these, it's like, taking care of their families. It's doing what they need to to survive. It is, you know, that's okay, that's normal. Those are the good people who like fell on hard times. But when the rest of us are made to live in hard times, are forced to live in hard times, the hard times are pushed upon us, by a way of segregation, discrimination, oppression, disenfranchisement, land exploitation, forced resettlement, then that's not okay, though. That's abusing the system. That's taking advantage.

Kristen  31:29  
Yeah, cause how dare you need to use the system for such a long time.

Prakash  31:34  
And so there are like two types of housing that on reserve that's available, which is market base and nonprofit social housing, which are kind of, yeah, I'm not gonna get into it. 

Kristen  31:44  
Okay.

Prakash  31:44  
But the point is that these are things that are like not, not not available to other people. 

Kristen  31:49  
Not not, okay. 

Prakash  31:51  
Yeah, it's like, if you...

Kristen  31:52  
Double negative. 


Prakash  31:53  
...if you, yeah, if you are someone who like needs social housing, you are not Indigenous, like you can access. You can apply...

Kristen  32:00  
It's a social policy. 

Prakash  32:01  
You can apply to access. 

Kristen  32:02  
Yeah.

Prakash  32:02  
It's not, it's not a guarantee because there's very limited social housing, because Canada does not care about poor people. But it is there. 

Kristen  32:08  
I think that you just like touched on a thing that I think is what's really bothering me. Like, they're actually for once enforcing a social policy. Like, can we not be mad at them for actually caring about people? They should be doing more of that. Not less of it.

Prakash  32:23  
Again, it's based on need not about race, or Indigeneity,

Kristen  32:26  
Which is how social policy should work. 

Prakash  32:29  
Okay, one thing that we talked about a little bit last time was the myth of the drunken Indian.

Kristen  32:34  
This is one that yes. 

Prakash  32:35  
Yeah. 

Kristen  32:37  
Yep. 

Prakash  32:37  
Okay, so we talked about it a little bit last time about how there were government delegates who would go and designate people's status by, by way of seeing whether or not they were drunk. And so yeah, this myth of Indigenous people being like, alcohol abuse is very prevalent. This is very much a stereotype. And there are three beliefs to kind of like comprise the stereotype. One is that maybe it's the case that Indigenous peoples cannot metabolize alcohol like other people. That there's some kind of like, biological component to this. 


Kristen  33:12  
Are... Oh...

Prakash  33:14  
And...

Kristen  33:15  
Wow. 

Prakash  33:16  
As opposed to it being like a dependency problem. And this is, this is, this is not, this is not not true.

Kristen  33:21  
No, I would, I would hope that my reactions to that let people know before you said it, that it wasn't true.

Prakash  33:26  
Yeah, to be clear, this is not true. There is something called like the Asian glow, which is like this, like genetic thing that like some Asian people or like, have this reaction that makes their like, cheeks are red or something. And this has like... 

Kristen  33:33  
Mmm hmm, they go red. 

Prakash  33:38  
Yeah, led people to believe that Asians can't metabolize alcohol. And to me Indigeneity is kind of like that, but all of this is not true. 

Kristen  33:45  
No. What?

Prakash  33:46  
Like as far as I know, they're like not, there's no genetic component to be like people like human beings cannot digest alcohol. Like, maybe if you have a specific allergy but like, this is... 

Kristen  33:58  
Yeah, like me. I mean, to be fair, I can ingest it. 

Prakash  34:05  
It's not the alcohol It is like components in the alcohol. 

Kristen  34:07  
No, it's true. It's components of the alcohol. Yeah, and I mean, I can. I can drink it. My battery just gets really mad.

Prakash  34:14  
Yeah, because alcohols as like a group of like molecules. Chemistry people will know. It is like, a very basic component to like life. So... 

Kristen  34:24  
Yeah. 

Prakash  34:25  
If you, yeah, it is like, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to like not be able to like, digest alcohol. 

Kristen  34:30  
Metabolise. 

Prakash  34:31  
Yeah. So big buzzer noise. Not real. Number two, this belief that all Indigenous people are drunks. In fact, most Indigenous people's if you like survey, so for people in Canada, most abstain or actually drink less frequently versus the general population. However, there is a higher proportion that people who are heavy drinkers.

Kristen  35:00  
Those are the only ones that are popularized.

Prakash  35:03  
Yeah. Again, this is how stereotyping works. You take a small portion of people and you're like, ah, yes, this is indicative of the entire people.

Kristen  35:12  
Yeah. Which is just wrong on many levels. What's belief number three?

Prakash  35:18  
That alcohol abuse is a cultural trait of Indigneous people. So, you know, South Asians, you know, we love colour. We love spices, that's part of our culture. Jamaicans you know, loving music, calling plantains, plantin part of the culture.

Kristen  35:41  
I... How dare you. How dare you.

Prakash  35:48  
So Indigenous? Alcohol abuse, right? That makes sense. As a cultural choice. 

Kristen  35:54  
Ah, now I am angry for two reasons.

Prakash  35:59  
And so this is like, you know, we know that this is fucking stupid. 

Kristen  36:02  
Yeah.

Prakash  36:02  
And in fact, alcohol has been used as a weapon against Indigenous peoples, right? To like, get them drunk, take advantage of them in terms of like, you know, making like treaty decisions and whatnot. And like, you know, trading alcohol for things and then watching alcoholism, just like reap through communities, right? This was something that was intentionally given to them for this effect.

Kristen  36:22  
And then they turned around and said, Look at them, how dare they do this? This is a sign that they're lazy.

Prakash  36:28  
And then, you know, enforce, like, you know, prohibitions and stuff like that on reserves. And, you know, we saw how prohibition did not work, you know, in the post war era. So...

Kristen  36:36  
I mean, tell somebody, they can't do it, they're gonna want to do more. That's just human nature.

Prakash  36:40  
Okay, and tell me what culture promotes drinking more than white culture? I'm waiting, like, y'all have so many terrible ass beers And that is like...

Kristen  36:49  
Thank you. 

Prakash  36:49  
The fact that you know, on Queen Victoria's day, y'all celebrate may two, four, after 24 pack of beer. 

Kristen  36:55  
Yeah.

Prakash  36:55  
This, this is a real like, alcohol dependency culture like, and I... 

Kristen  37:00  
I'm also just like, I didn't realize that alcohol was a bad thing. It's also that like, negative connotations associated with alcohol and minors. Because like, as a Jamaican child, alcohol wasn't a bad thing. Alcohol wasn't bad until I talked to like white people. And then they told me that it was. Like I don't, we have sorrol every Christmas and that has wine and rum in it. We have rum cake every Christmas, and that has so much rum in it. Like I don't, I don't understand. Also, like, we use hard liquors to do other things like cleansings and that, like, I'm just, I don't understand. Liquor was just a thing that was in the house. And we had it for traditional things. And like, not necessarily traditional things, but like family traditions. We would drink it frequently. Like, my dad, let me drink some, like, I just I don't understand. It wasn't until I was like, in white culture that I realized that there's a negative association with alcohol, because it was never negative.

Prakash  37:58  
Yeah, like for me, didn't really grow up with alcohol being a thing that my parents consumed. So like my introduction to alcohol was really through having white friends and like parties and stuff like that as a teen and then into my, into my 20s. And this is how I know that white culture is so steeped in drinking because like people have nothing else to do, right? And so I used to, specifically as an underage person, I specifically like not eat in order to like get drunker faster. Because the goal to drink was like to get drunk. 

Kristen  38:24  
That's another thing. Alcohol for us was about the taste not about what it does to you. How does this taste make this other thing taste better? Or how does this taste complement what's going on? And then white people introduced me to drink, so you get drunk. Drink, so you don't feel. I was like I don't... Why?

Prakash  38:40  
But Indigenous people, that's a real culture of drinking. And... 

Kristen  38:45  
Yeah. 

Prakash  38:45  
Miss me with that.

Kristen  38:47  
Please, and thank you. Miss everybody with that.

Prakash  38:50  
And our very last myth is the myth of authenticity. That somehow Indigenous peoples living in 2021 with quote, unquote, modern technology are therefore not living their Indigenous truths. How dare you use a flashlight? A snowmobile? GPS? Those aren't traditional, you can't have these. These are not okay. Therefore...

Kristen  39:11  
`Wow.

Prakash  39:11  
...you're not really Indigenous. And this is so fucking stupid that I'm just like...

Kristen  39:15  
Wow.

Prakash  39:16  
...traditions are not technologically dependent. Right?

Kristen  39:19  
No.

Prakash  39:20  
Like do y'alls churches have lights? Electronics, how dare you. Like...

Kristen  39:24  
Oh my God.

Prakash  39:25  
As if y'all don't have like Bible apps, or like, you know? Whatever the fuck.

Kristen  39:28  
Thank you. 

Prakash  39:28  
Like this is, this is so stupid. And like, there's just such this like weird like, romanticization of Indigenous people to other people of colour being like, so one with the land that you're like, literally, like covered in dirt. Right? And it's like... 

Kristen  39:41  
Well, because it's the opposite of being civilized.

Prakash  39:45  
Yeah, for sure. This is really perpetuating the savage Indian myth. 

Kristen  39:48  
Yeah.

Prakash  39:48  
That stereotype.

Kristen  39:50  
Yeah. How dare you actually use the things that white people brought to you that show that you are civilized? If you do that you can't authentically be yourself.

Prakash  39:58  
Yeah, this is very much like, Oh, you speak English so well. I'm like, bitch wonder why? But do I though? I'm just like, this is boring. I'm tired. Y'all weird. Leave it alone.

Kristen  40:10  
Yeah, please stop it. I feel like all of these myths also, I'm just like, y'all leave people alone. Leave people alone.

Prakash  40:17  
Leave people alone. 

Kristen  40:19  
All of these things ain't got nothing to do with you. 

Prakash  40:22  
Yeah.

Kristen  40:22  
Literally nothing, just let people live.

Prakash  40:24  
Just let people live. And moral of the story is to, you know, people say wild inaccuracies all the time about lots of people, lots of things. And next time you hear someone say something that sounds kind of crazy, just, just maybe just like, reflect for a second. You know, you can ask, ask clarifying questions like why do you, why do you think this? Why do you say this? From where did you get this idea? This impression? Like, where did you learn this? Maybe through dialogue through exchange, we can start to unravel some of these like deeply held misconceived notions about what it means to be Indigenous in Canada.

Kristen  41:02  
Well said.

Prakash  41:03  
And so we'll be back in three more weeks for our next installment in this miniseries, where we'll be departing from Chelsea Vowel's book, but we will be putting them into practice by looking at ongoing issues that are happening in Canada right now. Let's stay in the know. Bye. 

Kristen  41:18  
Bye.

Kristen  41:27  
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