...About Long Term Housing?

Transcript (PDF) available here.

Fancy a game of Canadian real estate vs. literal European castles, anyone?
The housing situation is bad and dare we say that the rental situation is worse. This episode (recorded September 2023), Prakash and Kristen discuss their past rental woes and offer some suggestions for renters with the hope that the situation changes for the better. (But it probably won't anytime soon, because you know, *capitalism*.) 

Transcript

Prakash  0:16  
Hey kids, and welcome back to Do the Kids Know, that is this show where we talk about race, media, politics, and pop culture in triple K Canada. I am one of your hosts Prakash on my screen is Kristen. 

Kristen  0:33  
Hey.

Prakash  0:34  
And today is going to be kind of like a part two to a recent episode, which we did about kind of like the downsides of Airbnb that I think are often faced, when we think about doing things like travelling and experiencing new places, and short term rentals. And so this time, we're gonna talk about long term rentals. I'm assuming that probably most of us listening are in a similar situation where you find ourselves very unlikely to be able to purchase homes. At least that is the situation that I find myself in.

Kristen  1:12  
Mmm same. 

Prakash  1:14  
And Kristen you and I have been renters for quite some time, both in Ontario and in Quebec. So we'll be talking about some current issues regarding renting. There'll be some rants about systems or structures like always, but also we will impart some vital resources for those of you who are renting in Ontario and Quebec to hopefully know your rights better, and then have the power and autonomy and privilege to exercise them. 

Prakash  1:51  
But before we get into all that, we have to destroy our psyches with the fun AI that has co-star because who needs you know, toxic friends when you can just download this toxic app? 

Kristen  2:08  
Hey.

Prakash  2:09  
Kristen you wanna tell us, your co-star read for this week.

Kristen  2:12  
I think I've said before on the podcast if people don't know or haven't listened that like I'm someone who I don't like silence. Generally there is something on in the background, whether I'm listening to it or not. There is something happening. So co-star this week, on Wednesday, told me you can learn to be alone with your thoughts. 

Prakash  2:40  
Wow. 

Kristen  2:41  
Rude. No, no, there's always something going on in the background. Okay? No, I... No.

Prakash  2:51  
I'm in the same boat. I'm never trying to be alone with my thoughts. When I'm working. I do like to be in like silence. So I can focus but that's cause I have a task at hand. I'm not trying to like, dive deep into my thoughts. 

Kristen  3:01  
Even when I'm doing tasks, there's something in the background. Whether I'm listening to it or not. There's something in the background. Alone with my thoughts for what?

Prakash  3:11  
For healing? For mindfulness? 

Kristen  3:14  
I can heal without that.

Prakash  3:16  
Can you though? 

Kristen  3:17  
Yes. 

Prakash  3:18  
Are you? 

Kristen  3:20  
Yes. 

Prakash  3:22  
Okay, we'll come back and discuss this. Well, just today, co-star told me you don't have to be perfect. You just have to be yourself. 

Kristen  3:31  
Oh no.

Prakash  3:33  
And I was like, wow wow. 

Kristen  3:41  
Uh...

Prakash  3:41  
Anyway.

Kristen  3:43  
Wow. The fact that it made you oppositional to perfect? Rude.

Kristen  3:51  
I know. 

Kristen  3:52  
Rude. 

Prakash  3:52  
As an Aries, we are the first. We are, we are creating God's image. Perfection. Chef's kiss. 

Kristen  4:01  
Yes. 

Prakash  4:02  
But wow.

Kristen  4:07  
Co-start really said you can't be perfect. And that's... wow. 

Prakash  4:14  
Wow. And how am I still being myself if that self is not perfect? 

Kristen  4:20  
Hey. 

Prakash  4:20  
Like explain yourself costar. 

Kristen  4:22  
For real. 

Prakash  4:23  
Anyhow, let's get into this topic. So first, we should just set the scene. It's Canada. The year is 2023. And the housing market has never been more out of control. I didn't fact check this but it just have to be true because listen, it is wild out here there is there's a TikToker.

Kristen  4:44  
Are you gonna talk about that TikToker that is comparing our housing market to like to 

Both  4:48  
Castles.

Kristen  4:49  
Yes.

Prakash  4:54  
Because let me tell you this. Okay, I'll link it in the show notes. This is wild. The way that like, for... 

Kristen  5:04  
Castles and islands, I love it. 

Prakash  5:05  
I know. Okay, so there's on TikTok there's this person who like, will like find this like, I don't know, like shack of a house in like Markham that goes for like $1.2 million if not more. And then he'll like find a like currency comparable like dwelling somewhere in Europe usually. And it's true like a castle, a chateau, a small island. Like, for like almost the same price you can have like a 16 bedroom mansion versus this like, two bed, one and a half bath like, situation in like... but it's not even just the GTA the Greater Toronto Area. It's like, it's like, you know, regional Nova Scotia. 

Kristen  5:54  
Yeah.

Prakash  5:55  
It's like Saskatchewan. It is like...

Kristen  5:57  
Yeah. 

Prakash  5:57  
It's wild.

Kristen  5:59  
It's ridiculous. I knew our housing market was broken. When the house beside my parents house and my parents, it's like suburbs of Brampton. Okay, when they purchased their home, it was in the three hundreds. And the house beside their house sold for over a million and I was like I don't. And in the last two years. And I was like, wait, woah, this house is not worth that. And that house is smaller. What's happening?

Prakash  6:32  
I know it's a lot. My parents are in a similar situation like they bought their home in also in like suburban Brampton. Like, I don't know, maybe in like the, somewhere in the early aughts for like, I think like around 250 or so. And yeah, similar deal, like houses in this year have been selling for like, I'm not sure since COVID. But definitely like before COVID or before they had this recent like mortgage interest rate rise like houses were going for well over a million. And... 

Kristen  7:08  
This is insane. I mean, this is not a nice place anymore. 

Prakash  7:13  
This is the same a neighbourhood where like when we were when we were in high school, like a meth lab blew up and like someone's garage and like... 

Kristen  7:18  
Thank you. 

Prakash  7:19  
I'm like, Listen, this is... 

Kristen  7:24  
Not good. It's like the mall down the street is like closing like what do... what? What are we doing? 

Prakash  7:33  
I know.

Kristen  7:35  
So meanwhile, this is happening. We have landlords who own multiple properties who are getting... like they're raising their rents and have empty units and are getting tax breaks from the government's because they just can't find tenants for their empty units.

Prakash  7:58  
I remember like, I was watching this other TikTok that was explaining how like amateur real estate investors are, like, really fucking up the real estate game for everybody. And I wish I understood more like how real estate worked, I'm just so uninterested in like, land ownership and stuff like that, that it like it doesn't really sink in. But I think the main crux of the argument is like, let's say, you buy a house for like, a million dollars, and your mortgage, is say like $1500 per month. And then people think that, okay, if I sell it, if I rent it for like, $1700, or whatever, I like, recoup the mortgage, and then I like, you know, whatever have a little extra for like utilities or whatever. And people think that that's enough because like, okay, $1,700 that might be like a reasonable amount of rent to charge. And then so they go and they buy these properties or like multiple, but then it's like when you realise that you have to not only pay off the mortgage, but also their property taxes. Also, they are like land transfer taxes. Also, there are repairs. Also there are things they have to do to like maintain the building. Also there like, you know, all of these things that never go away, like you can pay up your entire mortgage, and you'll still have things to pay.

Kristen  9:23  
You still have to maintain the property. You still have to pay property taxes. You still have all like, you're not just... Okay, here's here's the thing. As a renter, you are just paying the person who owns the property. And I think that with like amateur owners who are like I'm like if you're going from rent to own there's a lot of things that are not considered as you're saying. And I don't think that there's enough knowledge like I think that that's going to be the like crux of this episode. There's just not enough knowledge around as a renter as an owner before you step into this thing, right? And so, when you go to purchase that property, there should be like a guide book, a thing that says, okay, you are will be responsible for this, this, this, this, this, this, this. Now, as the owner of this property, as the landlord, you will additionally be responsible for this, this, this, this, this in relation to your tenant. And I think that that would change the minds of a lot of people before they become landlords. Because even with like our landlord in this property, there have been times where we have said, like, hey, this thing has happened, or we've done this thing, and it's your responsibility, and he's followed up with, oh, I didn't realise, bitch you should know that that's your job. Before you become a landlord. How do you not know? Because we live in a world where you don't have to know before you make a purchase, because everything is about the money, right? 

Kristen  11:07  
And so like, it's really easy to not know about all of the things that you will be responsible for as long as you were able to pay the initial fee. And so I can very, very easily see how a lot of people will step into this amateur like, well, if I can pay the mortgage, and then make a little bit of profit, it'll be fine. Without understanding oh, well, I have to pay property tax. Oh, well, I have to pay maintenance. Oh, well, I have to upkeep the property. Oh, well, I have to like, what if this thing breaks, so now I need an emergency fund for my tenant. I need an emergency fund for the furnace. I need an you know? Like, there are things that you will need to do now in relation to maintenance in relation to emergency for the property that they just don't think about. And then there's also this thing about like, a lot of the mortgages that were given out during the pandemic were not fixed rate mortgages. Which means that with every rise and fall in the economy, those mortgage rates also rose and fell. And it meant that rent prices needed to rise and fall, according to the landlords, so that they could recoup those prices as well, or those losses as well, because now they were quote, unquote, out money every month that they signed up to be out of, I don't know. And so it fell on the tenants then to recoup the losses for them.

Prakash  12:33  
From the POV of a tenant, I'm like, that sounds like a you problem.

Kristen  12:36  
Hey. A lot of this is the... a lot of this is a you problem, because it's not on the tenants to recoup the ignorance of the landlords, but from the landlord's perspective, it is. Because in their mind, they bought this property with the idea, understanding that the tenant would pay for all of the things that came with the property, even though that's not how it should go. That's not what's supposed to happen. But in their mind, that's what's happening, or that's what's supposed to happen. 

Prakash  13:09  
Yeah, I think like, because we live in such a capitalist, extractivist culture, the assumption is that, okay, I have a certain amount of wealth so that I can like buy this property or put a down payment or whatever. And now I'm just gonna exploit these people who like, for whatever reason, are unable to have access to property, but somehow, wearere gonna be able to like pay all the things that I myself cannot pay. I'm like, sis, the math is not mathing. 

Kristen  13:34  
I think that's also why, especially in Toronto, there's a lot of units that they would rather face it empty, with a ridiculously high rent, like monthly rent, then lower the rent and have somebody in that unit. Like I would rather my unit be over $3,000 a month and sit empty for another month, then have a tenant in here and lower my rent to $2,000 a month and get somebody in here. Because I am entitled to exploit you and not treat you as a human. Like it is more important that you give me the $3,000 I'm entitled to every month than it is for me to treat you like a human being. 

Prakash  14:12  
And this is when we like fall into the sub sect of like slumlord landlords who buy up all of these like decrepit properties to then like rented quote unquote cheaply, but then it's all obviously never that cheap because they're trying to maintain a profit. But yeah, they won't... then they won't do the necessary like repairs, maintenance to keep the buildings in good condition.

Kristen  14:36  
And then they blame you because for me to do the repairs, you need to pay more every month.

Prakash  14:43  
And so as someone who like spent like, yeah, between the ages of like 18 to 24 renting in Ontario, and then moving to Montreal. What I thought was so fascinating here, was like, one, at the time when I moved the rent was super low compared to Toronto, but also, like apartments didn't come with anything. There was like, no, I mean, mostly appliances, like... 

Kristen  15:07  
Yeah, that's still... What?

Prakash  15:10  
I know. In a way that I kind of understand it because then from the point of view of like the landlord there's like fewer things to maintain. Then I'm also like what is the service that you're providing? 

Kristen  15:20  
Thank you. 

Prakash  15:20  
You're just providing a dwelling?

Kristen  15:22  
You're just providing me with walls? And a roof? 

Prakash  15:24  
I think there's some, there's some places like within like maybe like Germany or Berlin or something where truly it's like, even like the cabinetry, the floors like...

Prakash  15:39  
Bitch this is wild.

Prakash  15:46  
It's also those are cultures in which people rent for, you know, their entire lives or for an extremely long time. And so they really, like invest in making the place like what they want. And I feel that we also, because we're so used to being exploited by landlords, we don't have that culture of like developing a good relationship, with the building that we live in that, for a lot of us, these are transient places because it's such it's so hammered in from a young age, that like the goal is to buy a property, because that's like, the only way of like, building wealth of like, having equity, all of these like, you know, words that only exist under capitalism.

Kristen  16:26  
Yeah, I don't know if I am 100% in agreement with that. I think that there are folks who are used to being exploited, but I think that the the more that we are exploited the more likely that we are to treat our places as transient and like, not make our own stamp. But I don't know if I agree 100% with that.

Prakash  16:26  
Yeah, I guess I should preface I'm thinking mostly by my own experience, in which I feel like I have lived under the threat of renoviction for so long, where it's like, even though it's like, I have like made my home here. I know, that its only a matter of time before I'm like forcibly removed because I keep advocating for like, for rent for like a controlled rent. And that is eventually what happened to like, to my apartment, like two apartments ago. That place we were like, almost at the moment we moved in, we saw that there were like plans in motion to do like a major renovation to like get us and the two other tenants like in our building out. 

Prakash  17:39  
And then another place too that I lived in like, the year after I moved, like the landlords, didn't want a change of tenants, they were like, Oh, well, you know, they were like. Yeah, I had a landlord situation which they were willing to even like reduce the rent in order to like keep us there because I guess we were really like tame tenants. But once we moved out the following year, the landlord sold the building and I think it's being converted into something else. So then the like five students who moved in after us then where then would then renovicted. And I think too like a place like Montreal, which is a very transient city, like a lot of people, at least in my experience, like have come and gone. They come for school, a lot of like expatriates from like France, come and go

Kristen  18:25  
See? And I'm like at the same time I know quite a number of people who like have rented the same place in Montreal for decades.

Prakash  18:25  
And now that I live in like a housing cooperative, I'm like, you're gonna have to like drag my cold dead body out of there. Like, I shan't be leaving. And its the only place I've ever lived where I like know my neighbours. We like do things together like just yesterday I had one of my neighbours who is like an elderly woman. She was like fully being like a victim of a elder fraud situation and I was like,

Kristen  18:54  
Oh no.

Prakash  18:54  
I was like girl don't worry, I will help you through this. But I've like I've never lived somewhere that like where I had the kind of rapport with my neighbours and so I'm like, I feel that it does point to like there are other models of housing that are like not the ones that are the most common that do you offer ways of like building long term relationships with the building, with whatever owner governing body. 

Prakash  19:18  
Like places like Singapore, I think it's like most of the housing is like government owned and so the government long term leases these dwellings to like your family, but every I think like 50 years or something like that, then like the lease is up and then they like, they demolish or like re-renovate the building such that they're always in good condition. And basically if you are a Singaporean like housing is like, I have to double check this but I feel like if you are a Singaporean, you basically have a right to a dwelling. Its like the uber uber wealthy have their private residences, but basically everything everyone else lives in public housing. And so there are other ways of living that are not they're not this one that we find ourselves in here, such that people can't afford to buy homes, people can't afford to even rent homes. My parents, for instance, who like now have a property that's like valued at over a million dollars like they can't ever leave, because they won't be able to find another place to live that they could afford because they're paying off a mortgage of $250,000, not off of $1 million. 

Kristen  20:20  
And so like this market has like priced actual homeowners out of their homes. And then it has also priced renters out of being able to rent while simultaneously forgiving landlords for jacking up their rent prices, and leaving their units empty. It's bonkers. Simultaneously while this is happening, it's shitting on folks like us who are like, well, seeing this, I will never purchase a home. Awesome. And then it's like, why don't you want to buy a home, you should just buy like six properties so that you can end up like... With what money? With what money? Am I going to afford a $1.5 million home? That you will not let me purchase?

Prakash  21:10  
No, it's so wild. And its like I've had this discussion, literally this discussion with my parents so many times. And I'm like, listen, when y'all were buying a home, one person, like one adult, with a high school diploma, working a full time job, like that was a salary and we lived in economic situation in which that one salary could like sustain an entire family and also like purchase a house in the suburbs. Like that just was the truth. Now you can be a dual income household with no kids and still not be qualified, still not be able to afford.

Kristen  21:43  
Still not be qualified to rent like I just... Its ridiculous.

Prakash  21:47  
I know. 

Kristen  21:51  
Oh, anyway, you were going to say a thing.

Prakash  21:55  
I was gonna say that also, like this has become such a widespread issue. Like it's not just in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver. I think historically, there have always been places that you know, had like a higher than average rent, but it is truly like a, this is all over Canada. And a big part of this is with COVID people were like, oh, I actually don't need to like work in person, I don't need to spend that $3,000 for a one bedroom, downtown Toronto condo. Like for that same money I can like have a whole house somewhere else. And so now people are taking their Toronto salaries going to cottage country, going to like further out to like rural areas or like Windsor or whatnot. And what this has done with that has also really like risen rents and property value in all these places. Like when my parents were trying to get me to like, be like, oh, like, you know, now that you whatever and they're like, it could mean to look into property or they weren't like go in together to like buy a place. They were like, showing me an example of like, a pretty like nice, like suburban home in a place called Welland Ontario. Do you know where this is? 

Kristen  23:07  
Oh yeah, I do.

Prakash  23:09  
I had never ever I was like, I, Welland, I don't know her. $700,000 I was like... 

Kristen  23:16  
Yeah. 

Prakash  23:16  
Y'all like I? 

Kristen  23:18  
It shouldn't be but yeah, with the house... Yeah, that makes sense now. See and the fact that I'm like, it shouldn't be but it makes sense now, that's bonkers.

Prakash  23:28  
Yeah. And I'm like, who who involved in Welland, Ontario is gonna be able to afford that. Like, it's not known for having big industry. I think that there might be a good an automotive plant there, or a mine, I don't know, I... But I'm like, okay, even me working professional? Should I get a renter who like defaults, or leaves or whatever, like I truly like, do not make enough money in the month to be able to pay off that mortgage and all those fees that we talked about at the beginning of the episode.

Kristen  23:53  
And then it's like, how responsive are you going to be for your renter? Because you're not going to live in Welland. 

Prakash  24:00  
Oh, of course not. 

Kristen  24:00  
So if anything happens to the property, how responsive will you be? To get things done?

Prakash  24:06  
You have to incur more costs by getting property management to... 

Kristen  24:10  
Exactly. 

Prakash  24:11  
...deal with all that. Ao landlording is just... Its not the move.

Kristen  24:17  
But see these are... Like in one short conversation we have logically thought through, these are all the things you should think about... And not even all the things these are some of the basic things you should think about before entering into this like new thing. And I'm sure that this isn't the thought process of many, because they're not encouraged to think about these things because the thing that they're encouraged to, to think about is can you afford to buy this property? Can you pay for the mortgage each month? And then the next question is like, well, yes, I can afford to pay the mortgage each month if I charge my tenant this much money, right? And then it's like, well, yeah, okay, here, purchase the property. 

Prakash  25:07  
Yeah. And I don't fault anyone for wanting to, like buy a home for themselves to live in. Like, that's not what we're talking about where its specifically...

Kristen  25:13  
No, no, no.

Prakash  25:13  
...about like buying, like buying to rent. Cause even in this scenario with my parents, they're inviting me to...

Kristen  25:19  
Buying to become a landlord is not the flex. Sorry.

Prakash  25:23  
No. 

Kristen  25:23  
It's just not. 

Prakash  25:24  
And it's only because we live in this culture where it's like, Oh, you must like consume and take up as much as possible, like, kay by one.

Kristen  25:30  
It's like, the more that you consume, the less there is for others to consume. 

Prakash  25:34  
Yeah. 

Kristen  25:35  
Why is nobody talking about that? The, like, boomers that own six properties. Okay, that's five extra houses that millennials can't buy now. Thanks. 

Prakash  25:44  
Great.

Kristen  25:46  
Thanks. 

Prakash  25:47  
And there was like an interesting, I think it was Canadaland, who did an episode about like, the cottage industry and how like, it was such a normal thing that like, you know, people like worked for a couple of years to buy their home, they work a little bit longer, and they get a very modest cottage somewhere in like, cottage country. And even that is like that has fully disappeared, because now the cottages are like in the millions of dollars, again, because of this, like mass exodus out of cities. But also like the way that the cottage has become this like luxury commodity. When before it was like such a ingrained part of like, white Canadian society.

Kristen  26:26  
I saw a video. It was like a Canadian talk show and I don't... You know I don't watch TV. I don't know who these like, TV personalities are, whatever. But it was a Black lady who was like, talking to I think it was like other... I mean, there were four of them. One of them was Black. I think one or two of them are white. And then there was another one. And I don't remember. But the Black lady was like, if there's one thing that I don't want you to do its invite me to your cottage. Because I don't understand why you're going to invite me away from the city to your place, either on the lake or in the woods that doesn't have electricity, maybe has running water, but maybe not. Where we have to like pack up the car to drive up there either like Friday or Saturday morning to spend two days in the woods, maybe on a lake with like maybe electricity, maybe not maybe running water, maybe not to then pack it up again and come back Sunday evening. That doesn't make sense to me when the city is right there. And like that is no longer the cottage experience.

Prakash  27:34  
Oh no, I remember I once stayed at a friend's cottage that was nicer than my parents home. I'm like, the fuck.

Kristen  27:40  
Like that I like I watched it and was like that's not cottages anymore. It's not like that.

Prakash  27:45  
You know, it goes into this whole, this like scarcity mentality where it's like, oh, there's so few things available, I will pay this exuberant amount to like just have something and then hope that like... And this is the thing too. It's like, I feel like I see a parallel between people like, in the US freaking out about student loan forgiveness, because they're like, well, why do they get loans forgiven when I had to work so hard to like, pay off all these loans? And I'm like, that's the point. Like, you shouldn't want people to suffer just because you suffered. And so now it's like, you have to buy all these properties in case there are like none left. But now I'm like okay but you're leaving none left for...

Kristen  28:22  
You're leaving none for anybody else.

Prakash  28:25  
It's like... 

Kristen  28:25  
Yeah, yeah. And then it's insidious, because like, while they're leaving none for anybody else. They're like, why won't anybody rent in my properties, but they're charging like $3,000 per month for somebody to rent in these like six extra properties that they own. It's like, obviously, it's going to sit empty. And then while it's sitting empty, the government is like, oh, no poor landlord, your tenant, like, nobody wants to rent your property, here's money every month because nobody wants to rent your property. Meanwhile, people are out in the streets unable to rent these properties. And the like, the applications to rent one of their properties are like 60 pages long, and the interviews are like horrible, and they won't rent to like minorities and people who actually need to live here. And then even if people could get through there into the ridiculous application process to like, live in these properties. They still can't afford to be in these properties because it's $3,000 a month.

Prakash  29:17  
Yeah, rental discrimination is so wild. Yeah, this one time me and my friend who is also a Black woman went to, we were like looking looking for a place to rent and then we like, found a place whatever. And then we're like, at the landlord's like the property manager's office trying to like send the documents, and he just like unprompted, goes on this rant about like, never renting to like Indian and Pakistani students. And both of us there just, you know, sitting there being brown, or like, what the fuck. But yeah, there's like, there's so much of rampant racism and homophobia and stuff like that happening, queerphobic, transphobia, in renting and that's for another rant. 

Prakash  30:13  
But I just want to like close the loop on like what you just brought up in terms of like, landlords, charging these exploitative rents and then people not be able to rent or whatever. So the same way that often these landlords are not very knowledgeable in terms of like all of the additional fees that are going to be incurred when they seek to lend, to rent their dwelling. They're also a lot of tenant rights in many provinces that are, they're just, I don't know why they're like not so much talked about. I mean, at least I feel in Ontario, I don't know of a single like, at least while I was there living and renting like, I had never heard of like a, like a tenant association or anything like that, that was advocating for rent control, like...

Kristen  30:13  
Yeah, I feel like that's on purpose. Because things, especially in Ontario, are built for the exploiters, not the exploited. If a tenant if a tenant association exists, it's not going to be promoted, because it's not for the benefit of the people doing the exploiting. 

Prakash  31:16  
True. And compared to Quebec, where I feel like maybe just because I have been more involved in like, tenant advocacy and that I'm, like, more attuned to it. But if you live in Ontario, and Quebec, we're gonna pop in some resources in the show notes, but also will give you a few mentions right now. So Ontario does indeed have right have rent control. You can find on the Ontario website ontario.ca/residentialrentincreases, but again, the link will be there. And the government sets out a certain like standard of how much like kind of like what the maximum should be of our rent increase, like depending on the year. So the rent increase guideline for 2023 is 2.5%. And this guideline is the maximum a landlord can increase most tenants rent during during a year without the approval of the landlord and the tenant board. Also, your landlord can only increase your rent once per 12 months. So if it's like six months, and then they're like, oh, there's one to increase, I'm like, that's like...

Kristen  31:17  
Nah.

Prakash  31:17  
You can refuse. And I think to like, I'll get to that in a second. But often people think that if they refuse the increase, then they have to leave. And that's not true. You can refuse your increase and stay, and then it will be taken up to like a tribunal. And so there are a couple exceptions to this rule in Ontario, that it doesn't apply to buildings are being rented for like new buildings that are being occupied for the first time after November 15 2018. So this is the thing why also some people want to leave their buildings empty, because if they've been empty this whole time, there's no rent control. So then they can charge like whatever they want, by rebuilding had people live in there before 2018. Or like since 2018, then the rent control rules do apply. And then if your landlord does want to increase their rent, like more than they're, the guidelines suggest, there's like a form that they need to fill out. And you can take that to the the tribunal. 

Prakash  33:20  
This doesn't apply for like certain kinds of units. Like, yeah, if a place is already vacant, like if there was a renoviction in which like people were kicked out, there was a renovation, and now it's empty, they can kind of charge whatever they want, which is important. If you were like, if you're being forced to renoviction, if you can, like transfer your lease to somebody else like there, there are ways to go around it. And I would suggest contacting your local tenants rights organisation to like, figure out how to do that. But there are ways. Things like community housing, so like somewhere, let's say like a housing cooperative, where I live, this wouldn't apply. Long term care homes. Usually, there's a rent control on the actual rent part of it. But often the services that are included in long term care facilities like food, the care from like a nurse or whoever, like utilities, those additional fees are not subject to rent control. 

Prakash  34:08  
And so recently, there was like a story, I think, on NBC where there's like a monopoly of private long term care facilities that were like increasing I think the fees from like a couple $100 to like, 1000s of dollars because they were like exploitatively charging for these additional services. But there's a lot, I think there's a lot of organising happening there now because those people like yeah, when you're on a fixed income, like a pension where are you supposed to go in this economy? Yeah. So. 

Prakash  34:40  
And then, in Quebec, there is something similar. The subdivision of the government that deals with all things like tenancy is called the tribunal administratif du logement, the TAL, and it's like the website a little bit more of a complicated affair. But...

Kristen  35:00  
So Quebec.

Prakash  35:02  
Some of the thing I don't think they have the same like there are certain exceptions again to like the rent control but typically all apartments that are going from one tenant to another are subject to rent control. And if you live in Montreal and you like want more information or you feel like your landlord is trying to exploit you are pushing about this organisation of Concordia called HOJO. That's a good resource. Also, in every neighbourhood, I think in Montreal, there are these like, housing committees called comite de logement, and they have one for almost every neighbourhood. I'll also link this in the show notes, but there is a group called the RCLALQ. That's kind of like a regrouping of these housing committees, and they do love advocacy and have a lot of information around housing rights. So yeah, don't get scammed.

Kristen  35:53  
Kind of hard when the whole system is made for landlords.

Prakash  35:57  
Yeah, truly. But then...

Kristen  35:59  
And property owners? 

Prakash  36:01  
Yeah. Just know that like, it's not a hopeless situation, that there are ways.

Kristen  36:06  
No, no its not. 

Prakash  36:07  
And like, I think, I don't know, like, in my heart of hearts, I feel like there has to be some kind of like, you know, housing crash or something like, I'm not sure if there's a good historical precedent at these record highs, but there have been market drops in the past. And so hopefully, maybe. 

Kristen  36:27  
The US market and our market went up together. And then the US market went down and ours continued to rise. So we'll see what happens.

Prakash  36:37  
Yeah, cuz I think Canada has, like, I think one of the highest real estate markets in the world, which is why there's also a lot of foreign investment into Canadian real estate, because it's like a way to kind of hide money. And so I think places like Vancouver have started like charging these like, vacancy taxes, where if you buy like a dwelling in Vancouver, and it's empty for more than a couple of months, and you pay this like extra tax. But, again, people are able to spend like, millions and millions of dollars on buying property. 

Kristen  37:09  
Yeah, its not helpful. 

Prakash  37:10  
Yeah, especially if that tax is gonna go directly back into providing affordable housing. 

Kristen  37:17  
Exactly. 

Prakash  37:18  
And also the scheme that is quote, unquote, affordable housing, in terms of like, new developments. I'll have to save that for another time, because that's....

Kristen  37:28  
We'll have to have another episode about affordable housing. I have thoughts and feels. 

Prakash  37:34  
Yeah. Anyway, I hope y'all listening enjoyed, and could, you know, appreciate this rant. And if you're a landlord...

Kristen  37:44  
The multiple rants.

Prakash  37:46  
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I get that everyone is trying to do their best and take care of their own. But you know, there might be...

Kristen  37:55  
Are they?

Prakash  37:56  
There might be alternative ways. 

Kristen  37:58  
Might be? 

Prakash  37:59  
I mean.

Kristen  38:03  
Anyway, thanks for sticking with us. We'll see you next time. 

Prakash  38:07  
Yeah, stay in the know.

Both  38:09  
Bye.

Kristen  38:18  
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