...About the Status Quo?

Transcript available here.

We rant about the status quo in Canada to be continually responding to crisis rather than approach problems with any kind of systematic approach for long-term healing. Buckle up, we get mad.

Resources:
Ontario Rent Control Info
Ontario UBI Pilot Study
New Leaf Project - Giving money to houseless people

Notes:
- Montreal's pop-up simianpox vaccine clinic is now closed. But you can still book one online at ClicSante.ca

Transcript

Kristen  0:16  
Hey kids, and welcome to Do the Kids Know? That is this show where we talk to you about race, media, pop culture, and politics in triple K Canada. I am one of your hosts Kristen. On my screen is your other host, Prakash. 

Prakash  0:32  
Hello. 

Kristen  0:34  
And today we've got a mixed bag of things, things we just want to talk about. And that's what we're going to do today. None of them probably are an episode discussion on their own. So you're getting many topics all at once. We'll figure out what to call this as we talk.

Prakash  0:54  
The title is TBD.

Kristen  0:56  
Yeah, yeah. Hopefully you know, the deciding comes before you are done editing. But we'll find out.

Prakash  1:05  
We'll find out. 

Kristen  1:07  
Yeah, before we get to anything, though, we are recording this on July 29th. And it has to be said Happy Beyoncé Day, Prakash.

Prakash  1:13  
Happy Beyoncé Day, Kristen. Yeah, and I woke up this early today. Not because of Beyonce, necessarily, but because of my sleep paralysis. Demons. You know, playing around me. And yeah, I've now been awake for many hours now. It's only 9am. But been up, yeah, for some time. I just like kept listening to the same three songs the first three songs like in a loop. 

Kristen  1:38  
Oh. 

Prakash  1:38  
So I haven't yet made it to the whole album, which is like an hour long. I was like, wow, okay, a full hour of Beyoncé. God bless. So yeah, Happy Beyoncé Day. Hope everyone takes part in enjoying this festivius occasion.

Kristen  1:56  
And if you don't, don't tell nobody just sit in your lonesome anger yourself. Like we don't need to know. It's fine. 

Prakash  2:02  
Yeah.

Kristen  2:02  
Don't poop on our joy because you're unhappy.

Prakash  2:03  
The same way that it's not like you know that cool to be like, liking mainstream artists, I guess, it's also not that interesting to not like them for the sake of being different.

Kristen  2:14  
Like it's okay. You can just be different and silent. It's fine. 

Prakash  2:18  
Yeah. 

Kristen  2:19  
I don't understand. Like the need to poop on someone's joy. Why? 

Prakash  2:27  
Yeah. 

Kristen  2:28  
But also don't answer the why cuz I don't care. Just like, go be quiet in the corner.

Prakash  2:33  
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the expression if you like it, I love it.

Kristen  2:38  
Right? If you like it, I love it. Or I love that for you. 

Prakash  2:42  
For you. 

Kristen  2:42  
Which it doesn't have to be for me and that's fine.

Prakash  2:45  
The for you is very implicit because often I'm like if you like it, I love it. 

Kristen  2:50  
Its not for me, but it's bringing you a lot of joy. So have at. I love that you love it.

Prakash  2:55  
People who enjoy camping, the outdoors.

Kristen  2:58  
Right? I love that, you love it. Tell me about it because I love that you love it.

Prakash  3:01  
Love that for you. 

Kristen  3:03  
I don't love it. But it's okay. We're not going to talk about my not liking it. We're going to talk about you liking it because that's the point of this. Can you tell that was targeted?

Prakash  3:19  
I'm like, is this a read?

Kristen  3:22  
Kind of. If your contrary opinion, like if you're hating to hate, like it's okay. You can just not. 

Prakash  3:29  
Yeah. 

Kristen  3:29  
I don't know. You can just not.

Prakash  3:31  
Unless you know. I mean, I'm okay. I mean... we... [mumbles then blubbers]

Kristen  3:38  
Words. Words, they're hard. 

Prakash  3:40  
I will say that I, I am a hater.

Kristen  3:44  
Oh no, I say that as a hater. Like come at me for Drake. I will hate him every day. But like if you love him, you love him and that's fine. But like I will not uplift him because no. But in the same way that I'm not going to uplift Drake, you don't have to uplift Beyoncé, but don't shit on Renaissance Day because you don't like her.

Prakash  3:59  
Yeah, it's like find people who you know are also haters, and then hate together. 

Kristen  4:03  
Yeah. Hate together. 

Prakash  4:04  
That is how we build friendships as adults. 

Kristen  4:06  
Yes. Yes, yes. I love that. Go do that over there away from us who love it. Yes.

Prakash  4:13  
Yes. Because today is also the finale of RuPaul's Drag Race All Star Seven. 

Kristen  4:19  
Wait.

Prakash  4:19  
We will find out is the queen of all queens.

Kristen  4:22  
That feels like it went for a really long time.

Prakash  4:26  
Yeah, it had a full like 12 episodes.

Kristen  4:28  
Wow. Okay. Okay. I felt like you were gonna say more than 12 episodes because it's the end of July. And I feel like we were talking about this when there was snow on the ground.

Prakash  4:37  
Well, it's because like Drag Race like never stops. I think right now, there are at least three Drag Race seasons that are currently airing. 

Kristen  4:40  
Right. Okay. 

Prakash  4:44  
All Star Seven, France, and Canada. 

Kristen  4:48  
Okay. 

Prakash  4:49  
And just before this was this All Stars was Drag Race Season 14. That went on for like, I think 16 episodes if not longer.

Kristen  4:59  
Okay. So which one is ending today? 

Prakash  5:02  
All Star Seven. 

Kristen  5:04  
Okay. Yay.

Prakash  5:06  
Yay. All this to say that there's one very popular queen who a lot of people want to win. I can't really articulate why...

Kristen  5:15  
You love that for them?

Prakash  5:14  
I mean, I am a hater and I do not like this. I mean not that I don't like them but they're not my... The way that is works is there are eight contestants and the finale, which is today, four of them are like in the top four and will like lip sync for the, for the crown and the title and whatnot. And of the four this person is my least favourite. Actually of the entire cast of eight, they're like my second least favourite.

Kristen  5:16  
Hmm mmm. Dang. 

Prakash  5:21  
But they're everyone else's top fave. And I'm like, you know, I'll keep that opinion to myself. Until I find other haters who are like, I also don't like such and such person. I'm like, yes, let us bond over our disdain for America's fave and root for...

Kristen  5:57  
If you too are such a hater. Let us know through the social meds and so that Prakash can get this group going.

Prakash  6:05  
Yeah, I haven't seen who wins yet. But I guess by the time this episode comes out this would have like, the episode would have been out we would have done know. And yeah, yeah, we can talk about it. I'm ready. Anyway, co-star. Did it read you? Because it did. It read me. I can go first. So it told me yesterday that there are so many things that need your limited attention. So not only did it tell me that I'm not doing shit, it also called me stupid. And I...

Kristen  6:40  
Wait. How are you interpreting this?

Prakash  6:44  
I see your judgmental face.

Kristen  6:47  
Because I think we're interpreting this very differently.

Prakash  6:50  
Possibly. But I guess I'm like self-projecting.

Kristen  6:55  
I read that as costar is telling you to do less co-star saying you have 10 things. And you have 10 minutes do one, like, one minute per thing instead of five minutes on one thing, and then no time for the other things.

Prakash  7:10  
When it's telling me that I have a limited attention then I feel it's like an indictment of my, like mental capacity. Which I... 

Kristen  7:24  
Okay. 

Prakash  7:24  
...cannot slow down and I cannot stop. Can't stop. Won't stop. But I should.

Kristen  7:29  
Mmm hmm. 

Prakash  7:30  
Everyone agrees. At this point in the podcast, we know we know who I am. I know who I am. What I am. And yeah, it is what it is.

Kristen  7:46  
Can't stop, should stop, won't stop?

Prakash  7:49  
I guess so. Holiday inn? Is that how that song goes?

Kristen  7:53  
Oh my god. 

Prakash  7:58  
No, sorry that's Hotel, Motel, Holiday Inn. Not can't stop, won't stop, holiday inn. 

Kristen  8:02  
No. 

Prakash  8:04  
Anyway, so Kristen, was was your...

Kristen  8:06  
You got there in the end. You remembered in the end. It's fine. It's fine.

Prakash  8:09  
What was your co-star update?

Kristen  8:12  
So on Monday, co-star told me that understanding people is not a waste of time.

Prakash  8:22  
That's funny. 

Kristen  8:23  
Right? 

Prakash  8:24  
Because I think as we all know, I'm Kristen and people. 

Kristen  8:30  
I don't wanna do that.

Prakash  8:31  
Oil and water.

Kristen  8:34  
I don't, I don't want to do that. People are very confusing. Understanding them is very hard. It feels like a waste of time because I am old. I am getting old. And I am no closer to understanding them. Every time I leave the house, I am confused by at least one person, if not more than one.

Prakash  8:57  
I'm just overall very still very confused at this, this sort of relaxation around the fact that there is still a very violent pandemic out here...

Kristen  9:09  
Yo.! YO! 

Prakash  9:10  
...in the streets in these areas. 

Kristen  9:12  
Yo!

Prakash  9:13  
An airborne virus. And we've just like abandoned masks everywhere.

Kristen  9:20  
We're just pretending that like COVID isn't happening anymore. That's just where we're at. 

Prakash  9:26  
Yeah. 

Kristen  9:27  
And that is very confusing to me.

Prakash  9:29  
I remember places like the one place where like, I see people still wearing masks constantly and I'm just like where I work yeah, we still have like a internal mask mandate. So like all the staff unless you're like alone in an office with a closed door. But yeah, but in these streets, anywhere else? I'm like, Oh god. Yeah, public transit. It's weird.

Kristen  9:56  
Yeah, no. And no, its like... I don't know. I just... I'm so confused. I saw... This is gonna sound horrible. But I saw us getting here all the way back in December. When they stopped giving us numbers and they stopped telling you to go get tested. When it got to the point when they were just like assume you have it and stay home, I was like beginning of the end. Beginning of the end of anybody caring. Beginning of the end of them trying to publicly regulate this. Beginning of them making it or maintaining as a part of the public consciousness to care about the people in the room with you that you potentially could get or receive an airborne virus from. A potentially fatal very deadly airborne virus from.

Prakash  10:53  
Yeah, a couple of weeks ago on the podcast Sandy and Nora Talk Politics, they were explaining how society, the Canadian government, everyone is, like, they're not pretending that the pandemic is over. They're pretending that the pandemic never even happened. And so it's like, there are like, no lessons learned. There are like, no new social infrastructure that's gonna, like help people when this continues to, like, take people like, off of work or like if people  have to like leave their jobs or when workplace conditions continue to be unsafe. Like especially now you know, with monkey pox, you know, like, there are a lot of cases now like children getting it because it's like, there was like, so much like homophobic rhetoric around it's like, initial like breakout. Where it's like, oh, this is only seen as affecting this like particular community and then people who are around them. But it's like, truly, like, any kind of like prolonged or like intense skin on skin exposure. And I'm like, y'all, we are in the summertime.  And like yeah again, there are no more restrictions. There's no social distancing. So people be touching

Kristen  11:59  
There's no more restrictions. Everybody's going everywhere. We're all going out to the parks. We're all going to concerts. We're all going to be in close contact with each other like what do you mean? What do you mean?

Prakash  12:09  
Yeah, like Montreal is like non stop festivals, like from like, May until August. It's like, people are just in close proximity. And like, you're surprised now that that, like it's spreading to, like, I guess yeah, you know, like, probably adult at festivals and whatever, but then you go to your home, that you share with others. And then it spreads. I'll just say, that if you do live in Montreal, or in Quebec, and you would like one so it's not like very well advertised. But if you only have three COVID vaccinations so far, you can get a fourth as long as you're 18 years or older. If you go if you're in Quebec, and you have a Quebec RAMQ health card, you can go to the clique santé website, and then you can book an appointment for a fourth dose. Sometimes it might tell you that it, there might be a pop up when you try to book your appointment saying that like it's only for like, like, you know, these specific demographics of like people 65 plus or something. That's not true. As long as you're 18 plus, you can you can book your fourth vaccine.

Kristen  13:11  
It's the same in Ontario now. Yeah, you just need your health card, and you go through the same way that you booked all of the other doses.

Prakash  13:19  
Okay, amazing. And then I'm not sure for Ontario but in Quebec for simian pox. Yeah, I don't think it's advertised because they I think they don't have enough vaccinations, to like vaccinate the entire population. But I think also, if you're 18 plus, you can get one. If you're in Montreal, so basically, if you try to go to the website, like their official categories for eligible vaccination populations are people who have like, had an exposure, if you live with someone who has been exposed, or if you're a CIS or trans man who has who has sex with other CIS or trans men, then you can, you're officially eligible to get one. But I, I believe, like, basically, anyone can get them like, as long as you're 18 or older. If you are kind of like unsure or you don't want to get like turned away by you know, whatever, when you show up. If you're in Montreal, in the village downtown, there is a, like a pop up Street Clinic on St. Catharines. But like, I think, every day or on the weekends, like yeah, they have like tent that you can go up and then they're giving to anybody. You don't need a Quebec health card. I'm not even sure if you need ID because I think they're like vaccinating tourists, like anyone who wants it, just walk up and get it. So even if you're not in like, you know, one of these like, quote unquote, higher risk groups. If you want the protection. This is like ye olde smallpox vaccines so it's not like if you had concerns when the covered vaccines are coming out being like, Oh, this is like came out too fast as untested. Which was not true. I think we talked about this. It was like often a lot were tested than a lot of other common drugs. But yeah, the vaccination for monkey pox is like smallpox, which has been around for a long time, the smallpox and the vaccines. So... And there's like very limited side effects. I got mine a couple of days ago, just a little bit sore at the injection site, but truly, like it was nothing. So that is your PSA from PK and Kristen.

Kristen  15:27  
Nice. I do want to back up to two things you said, actually, because I think what Sandy and Nora said was really, really important. In that, like, we're not just pretending that there's no pandemic, but that there never was a pandemic. Because it means that they don't have to change anything. It means that any of the like, if something like this were to happen again, if we get a clear indi-, like, we got such clear indications of the way that public health is broken. We got such clear indications of the way labour is broken. We got such clear indications of the way that our government, federal, municipal, provincial, cannot, does not, know how to, respond to crisis in an effective way for the population. We got such clear indications of the ways that capitalism has broken our economy, and has made it inevitable for those of us who are marginalised, in whichever ways we are, to continue to be marginalised and to be further marginalised by this crisis, by any sort of crisis. Like, all of those were glaringly clear, within just a few months. And so if we're pretending that there's no pandemic, we can just pretend that we didn't know that. Which means that the next time anything breaks, we're going to, quote, unquote, relearn these lessons we've already learned, which is like, that frustrating piece that social justice people, activist people, people who even just like, are aware of what's going on have to deal with all the time, is like, the general population, the government, the people in charge, relearn the same lessons over and over, because they get to this plateau piece, where they just like, well, we got to the end. We can now just like coast. We got back to a status quo and not have to change anything, because the status quo is back. And once the status quo is back, we can move on. Oh, no, the status quo is broken again. Oh, no, here's all the way it's broken. Okay, we're back to the status quo again. All right, cool. 

Kristen  17:38  
And then we're also ignoring the amount of people who haven't returned to status quo. Like, are we even talking about long COVID? Are we talking about all the people who like, haven't been able to go back to work who are still sick with COVID? Are we talking about any of the people who like, haven't been able to recover from the effects of the pandemic, whether or not they had COVID? Like, where's the status quo for them? Are we going to talk about all the people who made billions of fucking dollars, because we went through a crisis for two years? And so we know the loopholes that they used to make more money in this capitalist society, off of the backs of all of us who are suffering, and we're not going to do anything about it? Like, I'm mad now, you know? And like, I think that, not that I didn't expect to be mad. But like, it's that, it's the repetition of anger, that social justice people, advocacy, like we feel it all the time. And I think like, I want to come back to it because like, I don't know what to do with my anger. You know?

Prakash  18:48  
Yeah, I definitely agree. It's, like really frustrating when it's like, okay, you know, a lot of these issues that we're like really, like exposed in COVID to like a wide public that a lot of us have already known about, like the inequities with respect to distribution of healthcare in this country. Specifically, with respect to how like rural and remote like First Nations communities are able to like access health care...

Kristen  19:21  
Oh my god. 

Prakash  19:21  
And how this has always been a problem.

Kristen  19:23  
I didn't even touch on Indigenous... Ugh!

Prakash  19:25  
Like, this has been, you know, we we even had like, I think this was like, actually I was going to say pre-pandemic, but we started doing this in the pandemic, but I feel like we've been talking about these for like, you know, eons.

Kristen  19:34  
We've been talking about them for way before.

Prakash  19:37  
But yeah, you know, like the issue of safe drinking water in rural communities in First Nations and reserves. 

Kristen  19:45  
The fact that there's a First Nations community that has not had drinking water for longer than I have lived in Canada. Yeah.

Prakash  19:52  
Yeah, there. We talked about this. There are communities that have had on and off water advisories for 50 years. 

Kristen  19:52  
Yeah.

Prakash  19:52  
And it's like, in a time where like, we need to be extra cautious about sanitary precautions. So we need to be able to do things like wash your hands, wash your things, you know, like, if like there's a disease outbreak, like simian pox, where like skin to skin contact can transmit the virus you want to be able to be able to like, you know, wash yourself with like clean water. Or like things are so basic. Like okay if you can't access the water like, in like back in ye olde days, like infant mortality and like birthing mortality was so high because doctors didn't wash their hands. They'd be out here, you know, like birthing a cow. And then like trying to help your mom give birth to like your new sibling, and it's like, everyone would die because obviously infections would would be transmitted. And the thing is that there were people who had like theorised about germ theory, like decades before hand washing became like a standard practice. Because like, the people who thought they knew the best, like these practising doctors, whoever, like thought that they knew better and then just like refused to believe evidence. Same thing like when ye olde church refused to believe that the earth was round. Because they're like, not that Earth was round, but that like, the sun was the centre of the universe and not the earth. Because they're like, no, no, we are, like the most important things. Therefore, these other gigantic planets that are larger than us, and therefore have a like a larger orbit of gravity, and a stronger gravitational pole. They have to be moving around us, even though we can like use astronomy and math to realise that this does not make sense. And there are like 1000s of years of evidence because people have been looking at the fucking stars for ever before there was light pollution you could see them all very clearly. And yet... 

Prakash  21:40  
Like all this to say that we have a long history of being fucking stupid. Not us. Let people be people on the ground be knowing. Its the people at the top who like just are so like, just refuse to use any kind of to like be evidence motivated to make any kind of change that might I don't even know what that like, what is really stopping them like probably I don't know corruption or like, wanting to like be reelected for what reason? This is going to turn into a Sandy and Nora recap show because like last week, they were talking about Andrew Horvath running for mayor of Hamilton. 

Kristen  22:16  
Yeah. 

Prakash  22:16  
And I'm just like then they're just like, what, what are you trying to do? Like, what what like, Do you have a platform? Like, what is it like, if you're just a career politician, you're like, in politics to be in politics, that what is what this was about? Like,  make it make sense. And so when people are like, refuse to do anything, but just maintain the status quo, like why? Why did why did you like, dedicate your whole life to mediocrity? Like, make it make it make sense? I like, I don't understand.

Kristen  22:43  
I feel like... Maybe this is me making assumptions that I shouldn't make. But part of the like, dedicating your life to mediocrity is because like if you're told long enough, that like, mediocrity isn't mediocrity, you don't think that it is. Like, we consider it to be mediocrity, because we know that there's something better we know that there are more aspirations, but if you don't know that you don't actually know that it's mediocre.

Prakash  23:14  
I mean what happened, you know, to like the fundamentals that we learned in like literally preschool when you're like, you know, here's, here's a blank piece of paper. Here's some crayons, use your imagination and draw something.

Kristen  23:23  
Politician. 

Prakash  23:26  
Politics. Like no. 

Kristen  23:28  
Like that. Yeah. 

Prakash  23:29  
Take this pill and stifle those dreams. You shall not imagine. 

Kristen  23:34  
I'm sure that that was the dream probably is the dream of some, most, who are in that position now. What do you want to do? I want to be in politics. That is the legitimate answer for some people. What does that mean? Nothing. But they think it means something. And if they're told that it means something enough, and if they're told that it means something, like by somebody who they trust, then they believe it.

Prakash  24:02  
But I'm just like, even if you are like the grimiest of grimy, rich people, like if you're like an Elon Musk or whatever, and you like look out your window, and you see people who are like, you know, experiencing houselessness. Doesn't that like even if you're not empathetic, because you're, you know, gross and have a small alien running inside of your like, robot body that like, even if you don't feel empathetic, like oh, people should not be houseless, or they but even doesn't, like doesn't seeing them, like, you know, maybe on your property or like in the towns where you live, like, doesn't that bother you? Like, wouldn't you rather like not see them because they are safely housed? Like, I'm just... 

Kristen  24:40  
I don't know... Okay. Okay. I don't know that we can reach the same conclusion because like, I think it bothers them. Yes. But I don't think that they come to the conclusion of let's safely house them so I don't have to see them again. I think they come to the conclusion of, let's find a way to move them, or move ourselves so we don't have to see them again. Like their welfare isn't a part of the solution. What the person who's seeing them wants is at the utmost. Which is what capitalism and individualism teaches you, you should care about most. I'm seeing this thing I don't want to see. How do I make sure I don't see it again. It's not about them being a human being with rights, and they deserve things. And if they're unhoused, maybe we should house them because I have the means. It's I am a person with rights and means, therefore, I shouldn't have to see this. How do I not see this?

Prakash  25:47  
Ugh, sometimes it is so you know, like, truly, God burdens his hottest angels with the most critical brains because I'm like...

Kristen  25:57  
Yeah, there's no critical thinking involved.

Prakash  26:00  
Because I think this is the same problem that we're having with like the denial of the pandemic ever happening, which is like, kay there was a problem, this pandemic, you know, that we didn't know what know what to do. So they were like this have some temporary solutions.

Kristen  26:12  
Pause. I would say, if we had listened to the right people, we would have known what to do. 

Prakash  26:16  
Oh, no, we definitely knew what to do because virologists have been knowing for like, decades that like, there was...

Kristen  26:21  
Okay. Thank you. And that makes some like, it's not that we didn't know what to do is that we didn't listen to the right people.

Prakash  26:25  
No, no, when I say we, I mean like people who like have power. 

Kristen  26:27  
Okay, fine. 

Prakash  26:28  
Yeah, no, no.

Kristen  26:28  
Okay. Cause I was like, wait, wait, wait, pause. 

Prakash  26:31  
No, no. 

Kristen  26:33  
Hold on.

Prakash  26:34  
I mean, like, you see me here on the Zoom, you know, like, brown skin, Indian descent person. So therefore, call me Justin Trudeau. [Kristen squeals] I'm Justin Trudeau. And I'm like, okay, we have this pandemic situation. Kristen's dead. I'm gonna continue. [Kristen is laughing in the background] Remember when we used to call him daddy Trudeau? Like this took a different turn when he did brown face.

Kristen  26:54  
I did not ever call him daddy Trudeau.

Prakash  26:57  
When I say we, I don't mean, you and I, I mean...

Kristen  26:59  
What?

Prakash  27:00  
...these days, sad thirsty people on the internet.

Kristen  27:04  
I need to fall over, but there's nowhere to fall.

Prakash  27:07  
Just like fall into the clothes. Fall into the clothes. Kristen's in the closet. Literally, not figuratively. [Kristen cackles] Anyways, I'm Justin Trudeau. And I'm like okay, there's a pandemic, let us just like find some temporary solutions to like, you know, make it seem as if we're doing things. And this is not just Trudeau, this is like Legault, Ford, whoever, like anyone who has any kind of like, however, has things that like systemic controls, like health care, right, like, vaccine roll outs whatever. People who like could have been doing better, but you know, did whatever just so it would appear as if they're doing something and to like, sort of like move into the next phase. Even though like as we said, there were like issues that preceded the pandemic, like Canadian hospitals being already like, working at near capacity. And so we have like, had a longtime need for additional hospitals across this country, even within urban centres. And there's like went ignored for several years, and then here we are in a pandemic. And when other countries like China, like very quickly built hospitals to deal with it, and then like dismantled them when they're no longer needed. What happened in this country, literally nothing. 

Prakash  28:19  
People who were healthcare workers were not allowed to take time off. Some of them got bonuses for a very short time. A lot of those went went away. So then we got were penalised if they got sick, if they got COVID They could also not stop working. And then we have this like mass exodus of healthcare professionals. So what did they do? At least in Quebec, they have this like training programme. So like people who are interested in becoming healthcare workers like orderlies, these kinds of things that didn't necessarily require, like a four year degree university study, could take this like, intense training program, and then, you know, coming into replace workers who had left. A lot of these people were like, temporary foreign nationals, like people who have like arrived in Canada on visas or who are not citizens or permanent residents in Quebec. They were named like guardian angels or like something like that. What happened to a lot of them? Deported. What happens when they get sick because they're not legally citizens? No protections. No sick? No. It was like no, like sick leave. 

Prakash  29:21  
In Ontario. There's like a, an organisation called Decent Health Care Network. I'm going to go check them out, put in the show notes, but they have been like very, very intensely among advocating that like, in Ontario, Ontario workers need mandatory sick leave, paid sick leave after a lot of campaigning, I think they were given like a temporary three day sick leave, which if you get COVID you're supposed to take off five. That was the government advice. It's like, hey, you the government are telling people that they need to isolate for five days before coming back to work or seeing people but you're only giving them three sick days. So if you get on Monday, all right, well, you better come back by Thursday or you don't get paid. Like not getting a pay cheque at a time where like, it is like we are in an economic crisis. It like doesn't make sense to me. So going back to the whole, like, you know, let's say even if you are like the uberwealthy, and these things day to day are not affecting you, but like, you know, okay, cool, I can, like this actually, this happens in the prairie provinces that like, they will basically give people experiencing homelessness, bus tickets to get to go to Vancouver, to go to BC, where the temperature is more moderate, so they don't like freeze and die in Alberta. But then, if you've ever been to Vancouver, like, you'll know that there's like an area called the Downtown East Side where it's like, Vancouver is somewhere where it is like, you know, Canadian, uberwealthy, and then also like extreme abject poverty. 

Prakash  30:45  
And it's like this, like the bus ticket, the moving, it's such a temporary solution. Like the police rate of encampments, it's a temporary solution and does nothing. Because if you just move the people, they are still there, they're still suffering from the same issues that could be permanently solved by something like housing. And what do we have ample of? Housing. There is resources to help people. There is space. There are all these studies. There's lots of evidence proving that if you give people the means to be to have a home, like and if I find the study, I'll link it, but if someone can be given $10,000, that will essentially like stop them from returning to a situation of helplessness. They just like need something large enough to like get started and to like, get get set up. And there is money for this. If if like the Montreal SPVM, or Toronto City Police can spend like hundreds of 1000s of dollars for a one day rate on an encampment to like get people out of a park, then like, okay, you got rid of those 100 people, and that cost you like $300,000, or whatever, like you could have used that money to give each of the peoples $10,000. And house them like-

Kristen  31:56  
This is what we've been saying is that the reallocation of resources is what is needed. Tecause they, proverbial they think that it is more worthwhile to spend money to move people without thinking about the long term, like Band Aid solutions is what capitalism is about. Band Aid solutions is about what our systems are about. Let's make it look good right now. We'll worry about later, later. And then later comes and they're like, well, let's just make the band aid bigger, but it costs money to make the band aid bigger, but they're not thinking about the wound underneath the band aid, that they could just remove the infection for the same cost as the band aid. Like the same cost that it takes to make the band aid bigger, you could just remove the infection from the wound. That's not the thought process that's happening, because there's already a band aid over it. So let's just make the band aid bigger and it's fine, it'll be fine. That's literally what those calls for defunding the police were about. That's literally what all of those calls at the beginning were about, like the beginning of the pandemic. Reallocate resources, the way that you are spending money is stupid. It's stupid. House people, decently, give them money. Like I just I'm, I guess, like I always come back to everybody deserves to be sheltered. Everybody deserves to eat. At the bare minimum. Everybody deserves shelter. Everybody deserves food. We have enough resources to give people that. Why are we not giving people that. 

Kristen  33:40  
And there are so many situations like not even just encampments, or unhoused, folks, but like folks who have to deal with social workers and with Child Protective Services, like if you gave the family money, instead of paying someone to take said child and then pay that other like service, a stipend to house said child, the money that you would have given to the group home, the money that you would have given to the like foster home, give it to the family, and watch how you don't need to come back anymore. Because just give people money. And then they can decently shelter and feed themselves. Like I just I don't, you know? Like, we're just forgetting that a lot of the problems that we have even like therapists will be the ones to be like, we don't need to give people therapy. We need to give people money. Like there are problems that cannot be solved through therapy. There are mental health issues that we are having systemically as a society that cannot be solved by having one on one sessions with me. I can't give my clients money. They need money, like, you know? Like, reallocate the resources. So that everyone can be housed. So that everyone can be fed, like, I don't. 

Prakash  35:05  
Truly like the barest of bare necessities and like, we can take this further. And it's like, you know, I know people feel sometimes like weird about like, or like, you know, like that money isn't. Money alone is like not really like an ideal solution like, of course, like only because we live in capitalism that it becomes, you know, so essential, but like...

Kristen  35:24  
I'm gonna push back there. Because generally when people say money alone is not the solution. They're not approaching this from I've been unhoused before. They're not approaching this from I'm living paycheck to paycheck and the paycheck doesn't even cover my basic expenses. I'm living paycheck to paycheck and I have dependents who are not able to feed.

Prakash  35:43  
Well. Okay. Well, there was there was like a universal basic income project in Hamilton and maybe in London, Ontario that like, was apparently doing very well. And then like, mysteriously stopped. Before it was set to finish. I don't know for what reason, but I'm suspicious.

Kristen  35:57  
Also raise the minimum wage! Okay. Sorry. 

Prakash  35:59  
Yeah.

Kristen  35:59  
I just... 

Prakash  36:00  
But like, if if people are like the government or conservatives are like, oh, you know, like we shouldn't, you know, need to be like, fiscally conservative or whatever, like, Canada needs to save money. But it's like, we already also know that like, prevention is like, much, far less costly in the long term than is responding to crisis, which is like, all that we seem to do. And we don't even do that very well. But it's like, okay, if you're, if the argument is that if we give people money to like, you know, be able to like afford their rent, then rent is just going to go up. I'm like, okay, but they are again, there are very many empty buildings that the government could, you know, seize, have offered public housing, like, I don't know why the asssitance is...

Kristen  36:38  
Rent only goes up if you say, I'm going to make it so that landlords can raise the rent. Like, if you as the government put rent controls in place, rent won't fucking go up. What do you mean? Why are you acting like you don't have goddamn agency as the goddamn fucking government? I'm sorry, I'm yelling at you like you're the fucking government. But just like, what?

Prakash  37:01  
I mean I know that me and Trudeau look very similar when he's in brown face but...

Kristen  37:04  
[scoffs] Shut up. 

Prakash  37:06  
Yeah, and it's like, you know, with the whole like Rogers fiasco situation, it's like, okay, why don't we, why don't we have a national like phone system? Like I... 

Kristen  37:14  
Yeah, government. Why don't we have that? What do you do? Why do you exist? If you're not going to put regulations in place and enforce them? 

Prakash  37:21  
Like why are like five national banks reliant on private companies? Like, it doesn't make sense. It's like, either give us money and, or like, nationalised services, so that things like we can have price fixing for food, because there's a national food service, or we can't have these like exploitive runs, because there's a nationalised rent control. Also, if you live in Quebec in Quebec or Ontario, there is rent control. I actually learned recently about Ontario rent control. I had no idea when I was a renter in Ontario that there is certain forms of rent control. So if I'll find it, I'll link it. 

Kristen  37:55  
I think I'm just like really tired of the Canadian governments plural, allowing privatisation and then being surprised when, or like, really hands off when we're upset that privatisation has raised things and made things fucked up in a way that means that they need to respond to a crisis. Like, you can't be surprised by this. You can't be surprised we're asking for this. You can't be surprised we're being gouged in this way by this private company. You let it happen. 

Prakash  38:33  
Yeah. 

Kristen  38:33  
Like, I just, what?

Prakash  38:36  
Yeah, we have competition laws and yet you are the ones, you being the government, have allowed like monopolies like, I guess I can't remember the word for like a enterprise oligarchy is but like that, the way that like such few individuals and corporations, like extract so much wealth and resources from Canada and from abroad and exploit people because there's not enough political will or might. Because there is a legal framework in which to stop this kind of exploitation. But then the government needs to be the one to take the companies...

Kristen  39:10  
They've gotta fucking do it.

Prakash  39:11  
...to task because they're the ones with the resources to do it. But they're too busy taking First Nations kids to court. So.

Kristen  39:17  
Right?

Prakash  39:17  
Ugh, pain, well, that hurt me. And I think we've been ranting for enough time. Didn't hit any of the topics in our agenda. So I guess we'll save that...

Kristen  39:26  
We did not.

Prakash  39:26  
...for next week.

Kristen  39:27  
Another time.

Prakash  39:28  
Yeah. So if you want to hear us yell more about things, stay in the know and we'll see you in two weeks.

Both  39:38  
Bye.

Kristen  39:47  
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